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Motherboards z77 chipset and xp

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by mediapcAddict, 18 May 2012.

  1. mediapcAddict

    mediapcAddict New Member

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    Hi

    I was wondering if anyone can confirm which z77 chipset features work with Windows XP.

    The features I was looking at were

    • Z77 USB 3.0 support
    • Z77 lucid support ( can you still use a discrete graphics card via the motherboard connector )

    I checked the motherboard manufacturers and they say if you want USB 3.0 or lucid then W7 is the only choice. I was wondering if this is a limitation of the z77 chipset/drivers or just a choice the motherboard manufacturers made. If anyone has any experience with xp and and z77 chipset I would love hear from you.

    Thanks.


    PS. I know upgrading to windows 7 would be good. The problem is that both the software and hardware I need only runs on xp. Virtualisation isn't a realistic option either as I need a lot of hardware at the native level. Thanks
     
  2. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Here is the list

    -> Does not take full advantage of your multi-core CPU
    -> Multi-core CPU management of process is poor.
    -> No power management from OS (higher temps, consumes more power)
    -> Windows XP has an abysmal memory management (great for system with bellow 512MB of RAM... anything higher, and XP doesn't know how to manage it properly (assumes you are in low in memory, as if you had 512MB or less, and dumps everything it can to your HDD, instead of keeping on your RAM for instant access, as you expect)
    -> It does not support AHCI natively, meaning:
    -> It does not support eSATA natively
    -> It does not support Native Command Queue (NCQ). This boost HDD performance a lot.
    -> It does not support TRIM (will reduce the life of your SSD by a large amount)
    -> Also it reduces CPU performance due to the interface is drawn by the CPU not the GPU

    -> The OS locks down your CPU to 32-bit mode, blocking you from the OS itself, and 64-bit programs to take full advantage of your CPU
    -> It does not support more than 4GB MINUS Graphic card memory (should not go bellow 2.7GB out of 4GB)
    -> XP doesn't know what PCI-E or SATA is natively, depending on the service pack (if any) pre-installed on the disk, this might cause you a few headaches. My 2005, AMD Athlon 64 4400+ Socket 939 system, took a full week-end to get Windows XP no-Service Pack to SOMEWHAT work. It took me a full day to try and get more than 16-colors. I think it's fine if you have SP2 on the disk. You can imagine how happy I was when Vista Beta was out.

    -> Depending on your XP disk version, it does not support anything else than a floppy to install the SATA and any additional drivers that needs to be installed BEFORE Windows XP is installed.
    -> All newer than XP security features on your CPU will not work.
    -> DirectX 10 and 11 aren't supported
    -> XP Networking system is outdated, and slow
    -> XP security is abysmal in today's standard
    -> XP does not support natively DVD playback (DVD's didn't exists back then)
    -> XP does not support natively DVD burning
    -> Depending on how old your XP disk, it won't support USB 2.0 even.
    -> XP drivers are tied to the kernel.. something goes wrong.. BSOD. Drivers don't restart like in Vista or newer (well any modern OS for that mater).
    -> XP drivers are getting worst in quality and support is getting limited
    -> XP doesn't have a secure, working, full software firewall. You can say it doesn't even have one, as the current one doesn't even work. Most of the time, it prompts you AFTER your program access the web several time before.
    -> Not hardware related but, XP takes over 1 hour to install, excluding the uncountable updates that follows, while Windows 7, on a fast USB 2.0 memory key.... only 7min on my side, or about 25min via disk.

    That is all that comes up in my mind in term of hardware related. I am sure they is a lot more. They is a lot I can say related to domain account.. but it doesn't affect you.

    I don't know about others, but I provide 0 support to XP users (including my own software), because the OS is way too old, and doesn't meant any standards of minimum acceptability in any aspects. And is a migraine to get anything modern to get working on it. Market share of XP is lower than Windows 7

    If you MUST use XP... not to be an ass, but honestly, good luck. But you never know, you might be lucky and half the stuff work. I would definitely upgrade your uncompilable hardware.

    Also, from XP to Windows 7, the learning curve is already high. With Windows 8 around the corner and you staying with XP until Windows 9, you might soon need a book to get you started at such point.
     
    Last edited: 19 May 2012
  3. .//TuNdRa

    .//TuNdRa Resident Bulldozer Guru

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    Would it not be possible to use Windows 7 Professional and then the XP mode? It's usually functional, and I've never had an issue using it when I experimented with it. Although Virtualbox turned out the better option.

    But in answer to your question; No. Windows Vista and 7 have re-written kernels and Hardware Access Layers, Lucid Virtu and the like need those revised layers, because Windows XP was rather obtuse in comparison.

    Tl;DR: It won't work, No.

    Also; GoodBytes; Calm down. I think he got the point by about the second line.
     
    mediapcAddict likes this.
  4. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    What is this software? Are there alternatives?
     
  5. Picky88

    Picky88 New Member

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    If you need windows XP, and you need (presumably) older hardware running, then I dont see the need for a modern high performance motherboard. Find a useable second hand system that was around when XP was. Or rethink your hardware/software.
     
  6. IvanIvanovich

    IvanIvanovich будет глотать вашу душу.

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    As above, if you need to use legacy devices and software, you need a legacy machine. A P3/4 or AMD Athlon XP system should be easy to find for a very low price for such purpose. I keep a legacy machine around for such purpose for DOS/XP system. Using old OS on current hardware is a waste.
    Otherwise, you might look and see if those device are supported under a *nix OS, if there is alternate software or if Windows software in question works under wine.
     
  7. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    Too true... Sometimes, old software works better under wine in linux.
     
  8. elneckio

    elneckio New Member

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    Which manufacturers have you tried ?

    I had a quick look at Gigabytes website and picked a Z77 board : GA-Z77X-UD3H

    From there I went to downloads, both XP32bit and XP64bit offer download options.

    I downloaded the USB package and unzipped it (mb_driver_via_usb3.exe).

    One of the folders inside is \VIAUSB3\xhc\XP\x86

    Inside that is a driver setup including .inf files which list USB 3, USB 2 and USB 1 connections.

    So while I can not say I have tried, it looks likely the drivers for Gigabyte boards will work although I do not know about Lucid.

    As for needing a floppy to get esata, ahci etc. abilities thats a 10minute job to add the drivers to an nlite created disk so they can install with the OS. It won't give you trim or dx11 but that said you did not even ask about those ;)


    Hope that helps.

    XP should be lightning quick on that modern rig :)
     
  9. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    XP is slower than Windows 7 on modern rig, for the reasons I mentioned. And people here noticed the speed increase from XP to Win7.
     
  10. elneckio

    elneckio New Member

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    But still quicker than XP on an old rig assuming the mhz are increasing ! :)
     
  11. The_Beast

    The_Beast I like wood ಠ_ಠ

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    How about dual booting?
     
  12. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Assuming you meant that the people that claimed that their system goes faster with Win7 than XP is because of their new faster computer.

    I mean people here who got XP upgraded to Win7 with the exact same system.
    Personally, I saw a MASSIVE performance boost from XP to Vista, and a nice upgrade from Vista to Win7. All using the very same computer I had from 2005.
    -> AMD Athlon X2 64 4400+ 2.2GHz dual-core Socket 939 (750$ CPU.. most people where getting P4's, but those who payed for such pricy CPU are the ones that got a better, faster experience with Vista 64-bit)
    -> 3GB of RAM DDR1 400MHz
    -> Geforce 6600GT and later GTX 260
    -> Nvidia nForce 4 32xSLI motherboard
    -> 250GB Western Digital Caviar Black 7200RPM dual-core HDD with NCQ support.
     
  13. elneckio

    elneckio New Member

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    Indeed, but unfortunately the OP does not have that choice available to him : 'The problem is that both the software and hardware I need only runs on xp'.

    I am guessing the HW in question is probably very expensive, bespoke or no longer manufactured. Maybe OP can fill us in more to see if there are any other alternatives.
     
  14. mediapcAddict

    mediapcAddict New Member

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    Hi

    Thanks everyone for getting back to me. Thanks especially to .//TuNdRa for telling me about lucid mvp ( w7 only ) .

    I appreciate everyones input and helpful suggestions but due to the nature of my system and software I really honestly am stuck with using xp natively for the moment. If you are interested why I'm stuck with xp I wrote a little list of all the reasons below entitled "why I use xp" but the short version is it's either my XP hardware/software or too many compromises.


    I still have 3 questions about Z77 chipset and XP that I would really appreciate answers to if anyone can say for sure.

    1. Will usb 3.0 from the z77 chipset work on xp? ( see *note 1 )
    2. Can I use the intel HD "on chip" graphics with xp if I don't plug in any nvidia/amd graphics cards?
    3. If I did plug in an external nvidia/amd graphics cards and used that as my graphics output could I still use intel "quick sync" feature for transcoding video ( assuming I had xp and a copy of either cyberlink MediaEspresso or arcsoft MediaConverter ) ?

    I understand these are very specific and specialised questions but if anyone can answer them I would greatly appreciate it.


    "Why I use xp. "

    I should probably state that I only use this system for a few media center programs and video capture programs. I have a small list of known software installed and I try and keep things light and too the minimum. No games and virtually no internet. For all xps faults installing only a limited amount of programs and hardware that is known to work the system has been rock solid for me. (It goes for days before a restart and almost always those restarts are done by me " just in case ".)

    I doesn't mean Goodbytes isn't correct. Windows 7 is much better than XP. ( I currently use vista sp2 for all my games and online work and it is a far more rugged system than xp) but I honestly am stuck with xp. Some of the hardware and software could be replaced with worse versions ( yes, honestly, less flexible newer hardware and software). However more important is my PVR. I use sagetv ( now bought over by google) with numerous user generated plugins that either crash or simply don't work with vista sp2 ( and I'm assuming w7). A lot of people think windows media center is really good but once you have used sagetv with all the plugins every other media center seems like a compromise.


    I appreciate those suggesting virtualisation and WINE on linux ( which I hadn't considered ) but I really need hardware passthrough on every bit of hardware I have and I have never got video play back to look or sound as good through virtualisation as I have with using hardware directly. also my computer only really needs a few programs and some hardware and they all need xp so I would still end up using virtualised xp anyway.

    The reason I'm looking at a more powerful system is that I am thinking about doing a lot more video transcoding to save space and a faster processor ( currently a q6600) would be better. also quick sync kind of appeals to me.


    tl;dr Xp has been rock solid reliable for me. I'm stuck with xp unless I am willing to shift to worse software and more expensive hardware.

    thanks again to everyone for your contribution

    *Note 1 elneckio points out that the gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H has xp usb 3.0 drivers. I'm not 100% sure but I think theses usb 3.0 drivers are for additional usb 3.0 sockets provided by a VIA VL800 chip and not the usb 3.0 provided by the intel chipset. I think in the future intel will be providing more and more of the usb3.0 via chipsets meaning less and less 3rd party usb choices for the rest of us. Oh well.

    *note 2 someone mentioned dual booting. For most people they have maybe a couple of legacy apps or hardware they use once in a while and dual booting ( or virutalisation ) makes perfect sense. but this machine is a 24/7 machine that only has a few tasks to do ( often at the same time so dual booting isn't on the cards for now. but thanks for the suggestion. ( IF anyone else finds them selves in a similar situation and needs to dual boot occasionally I have found that using a second hard drive is simpler than using one hard drive for 2 os's. the other tip I would give is if you are setting up a dual boot machine make sure you only have the hard drive you need plugged in this prevents os files ending up spread over 2 diferent drives)
     
  15. mediapcAddict

    mediapcAddict New Member

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    YEP. some of the hardware and some of software is xp specific. Cutting these out leads to a cut down system that has reduced features. All the hardware/ software configurations have alternatives but they are not nearly as good as the current XP only options which has a lot of niche hobbyist written software/drivers. I would love to be using W7 without loosing anything as it would allow me to have a 3TB/4TB TV recording drive but as it stands I actually loose software and hardware features from upgrading.
     
  16. mediapcAddict

    mediapcAddict New Member

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    the main software is sagetv ( now owned by google ). It's not sagetv itself that has problems with vista/w7 it's all the user generated plugins that really make the system great that has difficulties. The alternatives are Windows media center/ nextpvr and media portal but compared to a properly configured sagetv these options really are a distant 2nd. Sagetv users understand.

    As for the hardware. i have multiple capture devices in the same machine. I have found that a lot of the time they "don't play well together" ( programmed on the assumption that you are using only one). Finding a combo that work together is difficult. I could replace it with more modern devices but then I couldn't use the really flexable capture software and would have to effectively "down grade".

    so the TL;DR of it is everything works just as I want with xp the alternatives although more modern are actually worse from my perspective.
     
  17. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

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    Neither of the functionality you ask about will work in Windows XP. Not because of any technical difficulties, but because the manufacturers cannot be arsed writing the necessary drivers. The reason? They want to sell you new hardware and software. There's a term for it: planned obsolescence. You can't really blame them, though.

    Case in point: USB3. While Intel won't provide Panther Point (Z77 et al) USB3 drivers for XP they have no problem supplying you with XP drivers for the Renesas USB3 chip.
     
  18. mediapcAddict

    mediapcAddict New Member

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    I can't help but feel if AMD was providing strong competition intel might be a little more flexible.

    It's looking like the z68 boards are the last of the truely XP compatible motherboards. Oh well :sigh:
     
  19. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

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    That depends how you look at it. The native USB3 ports will run in USB2 mode and Lucid Virtu is a pure software solution anyway. It'd work just as well on Z68 boards, but still not with XP. As for the other new Panther Point features like Smart Response and what have you, they won't be supported on XP either. You could rather say that it's a toss-up between Cougar Point and Panther Point chipsets regarding XP support at this point. From what I can tell you wouldn't actually lose anything, but if and when you move on to Win7 or *shudder* Win8 you'll have access to these features.
     
  20. Tigernos

    Tigernos Resident Roman Soldier

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    In the mid point of building my new computer (prior to my copy of Win7 arriving) I booted up XP with my new mobo and CPU and to put it simply.... NOTHING WORKED. It was awful clunky and slow. With win7 it is disgustingly fast. I don't have an SSD yet..... I cant wait.

    Also, Goodbytes your list should have been more concise, I suggest:

    1: No, get win7
    2: Its a horrible idea
    3: Get win7
    4: See option 2

    :p
     

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