This is a point I made earlier on in the thread. I have felt over the past few years that the previous Labour Government politisised Rememberance Day as support for their troops. Now I know what Rememberence Day SHOULD be for and I completely agree with it. But there was a programme on TV yesterday as a Rememberence Day Special where they looked at the current troops fighting in Afghanistan and what they go through. I honestly felt it wasn't appropriate as Rememberence Day isn't to remember what troops are going through now but to remember those that died. Rememberence Day was conceived so that the people could remember the brutal nature of war and the number of lives lost and to make people think twice about waging war. I disagree with people protesting on Rememberance Day but I can understand the reasons why some people may think that Rememberance Day is about glorifying the current troops.
Stu, I understand you have strong views, but can you please refrain from calling people, dicks, scum and various other things. It does nothing to further the discussion and frankly, it's low.
WANT NO FURTHER PART IN THIS DISCUSSION, WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT - ASKED MODS TO DELETE MY ACCOUNT - STILL WAITING
I agree with Stu's Moral Sledgehammer flying around here, people have got alot wrong in this thread and the hammer will be swung to all those who come near it, just as it needs to be.
No, of course you won't. It DOES make YOU come across as a dick, though There's no need to use profanity and insults in a reasoned discussion - it just clouds the issue and annoys people.
So it's acceptable for you to act in a certain manner and it's upto other people to ignore you if they feel it's offensive or unwelcome? Why is that any different to the protestors yesterday? You didn't have to pay any attention to them and could have easily ignored the news stories you read if you were offended by their actions.
WANT NO FURTHER PART IN THIS DISCUSSION, WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT - ASKED MODS TO DELETE MY ACCOUNT - STILL WAITING
WANT NO FURTHER PART IN THIS DISCUSSION, WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT - ASKED MODS TO DELETE MY ACCOUNT - STILL WAITING
I'll argue about swearing, I personally find it (and there is evidence to back this up aswell) that it stops me raging about things uncontrollably. I.e. it's a decent stress-reliever. Which is probably why there is a swear box at work >.< Bah Stu, these dudes don't understand man.
Nope, your arguments are certainly not any less weak for using profanity. I doubt anything could make them any less weak
What has any of that got to do with what I said? I was pointing out the hypocrisy of you getting worked up about the protestors because you found out about their protest and decided that instead of ignoring it you'd seemingly let it affect your feelings while at the same time telling people that you'll say what you like and that if they don't like it they should just ignore it instead of getting worked up.
I swear, most people do. But calling the people you're having a reasoned conversation with various names does nothing to help the conversation.
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WANT NO FURTHER PART IN THIS DISCUSSION, WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT - ASKED MODS TO DELETE MY ACCOUNT - STILL WAITING
Lol - I simply couldn't resist picking you up on that one But, yes, I do tend to be with Nexxo on this one. I understand that protesting on in the manner they did will have offended a great many people, but I also understand that lots of things we do offend them. It's swings and roundabouts - they have a right to express their views, just as you have a right to swear. The issues surrounding wars are complicated and each side feels that it is right and/or has been wronged. Remembrance day is a day to remember all the people who have perished in wars, and, the protesters are remembering their own dead and feel that they must honour their legacy by speaking out against those who they perceive as the aggressors. This doesn't mean that I think that our serving personnel are bad or evil or whatever, I think they are by and large decent human beings. That doesn't make the wars any less objectionable.
WANT NO FURTHER PART IN THIS DISCUSSION, WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT - ASKED MODS TO DELETE MY ACCOUNT - STILL WAITING
Although I agree with the general thrust of that argument, it's this bit I'm having problems with. Remembrance Day is not, has not (for many years) and should not be about "speaking out against [...] aggressors". Commonly we invite representatives of the 'enemy' from the wars we remember in recognition that Remembrance Day is about loss, not who started the fight. German and Japanese citizens don't preface similar ceremonies by bleating about the English and American forces that exacted the appalling losses they're remembering and condemning them to eternal damnation. Remembrance Day isn't about the reasons wars are fought, or even who they are fought between. It's about the military casualties, on both sides. I feel therefore that whilst the erstwhile representatives of the Afghani guerillas are entitled to a place at the ceremony, I don't think it's right they should be appointing themselves judge, jury and St. Peter over the people being remembered. I'm all for people remembering the immense losses that conflict has caused humanity over the centuries, and bluntly, I think that just as Argentine soldiers are commemorated during Falklands ceremonies eventually Taliban fighters will be mourned alongside British servicemen. Hopefully that time arrives soon because reflecting on the losses might make us less likely to pick these fights in the first place.
after not being able to join the army due to a serious previous knee injury i went into the engineering side of development. I felt that in some way i could still do my part, one of the main reasons i wanted to be in the army was not to go an kill maim and murder, but it was because i wanted to make a difference. When i grew up i watched the gulf war start when i was about 10 and watching it i felt a deep urge to want to serve, again it was not the guts and glory aspect but the humanitairian aspect. protecting people that cannot themselves make a difference, opposing people who sought to do wrong to others. The army are the right hand of the politicians, and its their bidding that the army do. For a soldier cannot go to war until the cabinet declares a war! I still feel a longing and dissapointment that i could not serve, and having seen many people come and go out there i have nothing but respect. The people out there think nothing of killing their own and do so on a regular basis... the army regularly put their lives at risk to disarm these bombs in towns etc.. if we walked away now do you think the deaths would stop.. you know they wont.. taliban rule by fear! armies save lives as much as they take, and its these extremist forces that have brought the armies to their lands. As far as im aware the taliban are splitting and figting amongst themselves for power as the leadership has been decimated... Power... not religion.. but control.. the route of all conflict. they dont want a better world, they want the old world.. a new world is here and here to stay
