Can Piracy ever be Justified?

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Darkwisdom, 8 Nov 2015.

  1. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I didn't think they defined what 'specialised services' were, i thought they defined it as...(PDF)
    It's left very open to interpretation (imo) as 'widely' could mean anything, Netflix isn't widely used when compared to how many people use the Internet so in theory they could claim it's a specialised service, sure recital 50 of the draft regulation states that these services should not “substantially impair the general quality of internet access services” but good luck trying to prove that it is or isn't impairing the quality of your connection.

    Like a lot of regulations/law/rules they're left open to interpretation and full of loopholes.
     
  2. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

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    Thoroughly related Oatmeal comic.

    The minority of childish hair-pulling has kind of put me off the thread - I never learn, I always think Bit-Tech can unanimously evolve beyond adolescent bickering and personality war derailment, but there's always one or two in every thread who can't resist a good fight. Props to the rest of you for keeping it sane and making some very good points, though, it's interesting reading. Shirty's post was pretty much spot on for the actual facts of the matter.
     
  3. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    Netflix has nearly 70m worldwide subscribers. Its the worlds biggest online long form video distribution platform. It is exactly the opposite of a 'specialised service' in every sense of the word.

    It also uses 37% of overall internet bandwidth during peak hours - it very clearly does impact the quality of peoples connection - which is why Comcast etc have gone after them in particular in the states.

    I actually cannot think of a worse example to use. In fact, the entire wording of the above is designed to prevent companies such as Netflix from abusing net neutrality rules.

    I agree, generally though, they could be tighter, and better worded, but people saying that the EU is anti net neutrality are spreading misinformation.
     
  4. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I can't think of a better example for showing how a potential loophole could be exploited, using your numbers it could be argued that 70m subscribers and 37% of bandwidth isn't something that's "widely" used.

    I'm not saying they would succeed using that argument BTW, just that a company like Netflix could reasonably argue a case based on those numbers.
     
  5. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    We have Amazon Prime (with the Fire HD box and a dongle for the bedroom) as well as Now TV (two boxes) with the Sky Sports package (that's mine that :D ) and Netflix. We used to have Lovefilm too at one point.

    Basically my step daughter lets us use her Netflix and in return we let her use our Now TV.

    But yeah, even with a 42mb Fibre set up sometimes it all grounds to a halt, especially when I download in Steam.

    I did have 72mb fibre but it was expensive at £35 a month. So we switched it to 42, and now we pay £20 a month. It's only fell down a couple of times, and that was when I was watching Sky Sports, my lady was using Netflix and I had Steam thrashing the downloads.
     
  6. NethLyn

    NethLyn Minimodder

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    That casual gaming company takeover and movie studio joint venture setup is where all that money went and they want to cover those losses as soon as possible.

    Is it true that there's really *another* sound bug/glitch in Blops III? After II had similar issues? That's a reason I left out for the potential reason someone might pirate, if a publisher just doesn't give a stuff about QA on a guaranteed bestseller and still expects console price from fans and mental patient money from collectors, for a game that still might not work after the day-one patch. If I'm wrong it's Activision so the point still stands :)
     
    Last edited: 15 Nov 2015
  7. isaac12345

    isaac12345 What's a Dremel?

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    It can be reasonable to justify it in places where for political and economic reasons one cant get access to works that are considered universally great and useful to the public. Like essential maths books or beethoven's classics. It's techniques can also be very useful in developing and propagating subcultures. For subversion purposes, it will be highly dependant on the context its being applied to.
    If we are to think about piracy, it would be wise to take capitalism and its various forms throughout history into account as well.
     
  8. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    For games virtually all get a demo after a few days of launch on pc so no real excuses on that front anymore and with them so cheap on sites like kinguin its very hard to argue that piracy can ever be justified. I dont think ive paid more than £25 for a pc title in the last 3-4 years.

    TV shows is a different story and in some countrys you are years behind the show due to the way its broadcast. CSI Miami for example was at least 3 years behind in the uk.

    Game of thrones is broadcast a day at most behind the USA one. Arrow is a similar story. The time frames are reducing which can not be a bad thing in truth. TV shows is still one of my big bug bares and we have a Full Sky Subscription and netflix on top of that.

    Movies I aint been to a cinema in years and have little intrest in going to one just wait for blue ray release these days.
     
  9. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    Demo ? Where ? :eyebrow:
     
  10. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Of my admittedly limited purchases this year.

    Football manager 2016 has a demo ( its on steam)
    Just cause 3 has a demo ( Its on demobay)
    Fallout 4 has a demo
    Star wars battlefront has a demo
    batman arkham knight has a demo.

    Thats my purchases of this year.

    Im certain if I kept looking id find a demo for most PC games released this year. So yeah plenty of demos available.
     
  11. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    And I still stand by what I said earlier in this topic. Piracy has harmed PC gaming. Most new releases want you online despite been single player. Makes it a nightmare when traveling when the game does not support steam offline mode.

    Look at the Sim City, Starcraft 2 and its expansions. 4 massively single player games basically demanding a perm internet connection to play. To the cost of the game in Sim Citys case.

    Even something as harmless as Dungeon defenders 2 requires online now when in the orginal you had a choice in the matter.
     
  12. d_stilgar

    d_stilgar Old School Modder

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    Sim City also suffered from Maxis being purchased and gutted by EA. Another good studio murdered.
     
  13. loftie

    loftie Multimodder

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    The online only part of SimCity was the least of it's problems.
     
  14. TheBlackSwordsMan

    TheBlackSwordsMan Over the Hills and Far Away

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    Are we talking game piracy or piracy on a global scale? I've always bought my games, musics and movies are an other story. I don't feel the need to give my money to The Rolling Stones, however I like to buy music from unknown artist that REALLY NEED the money whenever I can.
     
  15. DLDeadbolt

    DLDeadbolt Space Cadet

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    Games I will buy, but sometimes I'll torrent a game to check if I'd actually like it and how it runs on my PC, similar things that we all used to do with DEMO copies. Devs and publishers don't want to do demos any more as it can often lead to less sales for their games.

    With music, I have Spotify. There are a number of other choices around.

    For Movies, there's Netflix and a few other services.

    The gist of it, adapt to the new medium or stagnate and die. Games are out worldwide at the same time (with only a few cases of a few days between releases). Music also tends to be available worldwide at initial release.
    With movies, its a whole other ballgame. Sometimes weeks/months between region releases. Releasing on a new medium often 6-12 months after release, long after the film is no longer available in theatres.

    If movies were actually released to theatres at roughly the same time worldwide, say a week between initial region release and final region release, it went to streaming services in 1 month after release (Giving studios the chance for box office earnings), and to physical media within the 1st 6 months I'm sure they'd actually see an uptick in revenue as it should cause a lot of the cam/TS versions to die out if there is legit versions to be found.
     
  16. Goatee

    Goatee Multimodder

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    Buy games on Steam, 2h gameplay / 14days is enough time to decide if you think a game is worth paying for. If you don't like it / doesn't work then request a refund.

    I tend to get refunds on approx 50% of games I buy through steam now. it also means I'm happy to buy games I'm not sure about and try them.
     
  17. Elledan

    Elledan What's a Dremel?

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    Back when I didn't have a job and no money there was no way I could have watched the series and films I did. Pirating content was fine in my eyes because there was no way I could have bought any of it back then.

    Now that I have a job and disposable cash, I find that ironically much of the content I learned to love years ago as a 'pirate' now is no longer up for sale. Most recently as I tried to see whether I could find the DVD or BD box set for the anime series 'Zegapain', of 2006 vintage. They stopped making box sets years ago, only things you can find these days are used copies on Ebay, usually of the wrong region (1, US, for example).

    So I keep pirating those, because I cannot buy it. If Bandai were to start selling box sets again at a reasonable price, I'd buy it, but as things stand there's little I can change without simply not enjoying the content I like any more. That seems wrong, too.
     
  18. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    I won't speak to justification since I don't really consume media, bought or pirated, but every time I see something from the RIAA / MPAA / whoever I feel a strong urge to download a torrent program and learn how to use it just because I really want to see those sort of industry associations suffer.
     
  19. d_stilgar

    d_stilgar Old School Modder

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    So you stole stuff because you couldn't afford it. Then they stopped making the box sets because they didn't get enough sales, so you keep stealing. Great logic.
     
  20. thom804

    thom804 Minimodder

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    If he was never going to afford it back then, they never lost a sale in the first place.
     

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