There, corrected it for you. If you talk about England you talk about the English, not the British. British pertain to those living in Britain (English, Scottish and Welsh) British and English are not synonymous. Don't put these people under the same umbrella, and understand, that not all of them share the same views. As for the European Union, well I think it's one of the worst ideas ever. The system is detrimental to both individual rights and freedoms, then again, that applies to all forms of centralization. ... When it comes to politics I think getting rid of the career politicians would be a good start.
Its more a sense that the EU has overstepped its simple role as facilitating open borders and a free market. The current costs still represents good value.
Political views......people are idiots and it doesn't matter which dictator you choose, as long as they claim their money they'll all ultimately sing from the same song sheet and throw **** to hide their true intentions. Either way I don't think one political view fits all. Without a strong leader you get different people dividing the country but that's not to say a dictatorship is the way forward. I also don't believe one person or small group of people should make decisions for thousands of people yet at the same time people are idiots and can't be relied upon to make the decisions for themselves. I guess it depends on the people and ultimately who's in charge but either way I'm very disillusioned with politics across Europe, GB and especially NI. I really don't understand patriotism as you can't choose the country your born in. One mans freedom fighter is another ones terrorist. I honestly don't know where I sit in the political spectrum. I guess Im too cynical. To be fair he has my vote if Sillyband remains in charge of Labour and Clegg is just a spoilt brat. Its hard to know if UKIP has a peanut between them. They seem to have stumbled onto the stage rather than actually be part of the show. As for the referendum, it can be a dangerous tool. The educated voice is often lost to the sound of fear meaning anything can happen. I'm anti-Europe, I'm not educated on the matter tho but see the danger of the blind being allowed input? Least Cam has differentiated himself from the rest. He is most likely pro Europe himself and its honestly the best solution as it keeps options ie. renegotiate open before doing something drastic. Jumping too soon would also mean not giving time for people to research such a big decision and what about those who are Euro Skeptic? This at least gives a chance for some uncertainty to be removed (will Greece be bought by China, Is berlusconi a pedo?............yes tongue in Cheek) before making the decision. I wonder if NI will return to full boarder patrols if the UK leaves Europe. Could get interesting here. Look a Sinn Fein North and South. Same party, polar policies.
Would you be opposed to an organization promoting open borders and trade as well as well as basic human rights enforcement? That's what the EU should be and I don't see how anyone could disagree with that.
I would argue that the EU has not overstepped its role, but that its role has simply grown. We're talking about an organisation which was founded as the ECSC 61 years ago, and since then has grown from essentially a Franco-German heavy industry union into an embryonic federal superpower with the largest economy in the world and 27 member states, soon to be in the mid 30's. Does the EU represent good value "as is"? Yes. The EU is good economically for the UK and everyone who's serious about business knows this (that's why you'll see a large push in London to stay within it if anyone seriously tries to leave) - but more than that the EU is turning into a sovereign country, slowly, but surely. People will need time to acclimatise to this.
Trade has always been conducted, a country must be in control of its borders (if it has no borders it is no longer a country), they should never be open in that sense, and what do you mean by "basic human rights enforcment"?
The EU becoming something like the USA is actually the goal, but it isn't that easy, as there's just too many cultures and languages involved. Forming the USA was way easier back then, as most people shared a common language (most were speaking english) and they had no cultural background, other then to escape the european monarchies. Imho, it would be the only right thing to do to form the USE and have a european constitution and the same rules and laws (economically, socially and personally) throughout the whole EU. Currently the member-countries are all rather different. Social laws differ heavily, healthcare is far from equal, economics are totally asynchron (VAT for example ranges between 15% and 27%, which is unacceptable), traffic laws (speedlimits, etc), and the list goes on and on. I allways ask, why we should help the other countries, when they don't have the same rules and alot of people I know think exactly the same. So yeah, either all members come to the conclusion that we need to centralize even more and form a united europe with a centralized government, or we'll see the EU falling apart. Anyways, the current politicians don't have what it takes to make such changes happening.
Not free trade with no tariffs. Human are very bad at that unfortunately. Would you not consider it a right to be able to cross borders freely? Doesn't really fit into the idea of individual rights and freedom in my mind. People who cross the border still have to abide by the countries laws. By your definition Western Europe merged into a single country in 1985. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union]
As I undersand it European countries do still have borders, I'm still wondering what you meant by "basic human rights enforcment", though.
Yes, they do have borders, and that's exactly what has to go, if we talk about a united europe, where people actually feel for each other. As for the enforcement of basic human rights, go read up on the "Treaty of Lisbon" and especially the part about the "Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union" which the UK and Poland opted out of for various reasons. So, allthough England and Poland are members of the EU, their laws and verdicts can not be overruled by the European Court of Justice. For all other members the European Court of Justice is the highest instance tho. Basically that gives english and polish citizens less rights then all the other EU-citizens.
You really need to get off that socialist / leftist / rainbow caolition kool-aid and sober up man. England and Polen are two sovereign nations, are they not? And as such they set their own laws, rules and regulations. Why should a central point of authority be in a position to dictate and impose its will onto sovereign nations telling those nations what they can and cannot do? I've got news for you, and anyone like you. The majority of people don't want the centralization of power and Orwellian control you are alluding to, why so many Scots want out of the Union for instance (the United Kingdom) would be an expression of this, one of many.
The europeans will only have weight in the future, if they speak with one voice. Otherwise the single european countries will become meaningless over the next few decades. Political dwarfs. The worlds power is shifting towards Indochina and the pacific area and the atlantic bonds will not be strong enough to counter that, if the USA can't rely on a united europe. But yeah, keep believing in the current state and don't start thinking about tomorrow. Shut your eyes and neglect the fact that the world is changing. This'll sure help preventing it from happening.
The idea of a united people in a Europe without borders is a lovely ideal, but won't work easily in practice. People are tribal and tend to cluster around language, culture, social class, religion etc. Moreover their allegiances are nested in a hierarchy (allegiance to one first, then the other, then the next...) in a complex way. See former Yugoslavia: one nation and one people under Tito, until he died and the Communist government fell apart; a few weeks later old neighbours are slaughtering each other over perceived ethnic and historical differences. See Rwanda: Hutu vs Tutsi. See Iraq: Suuni vs Shiite vs Kurds. See N. Ireland: Catholics vs Protestants.
Right, Cameron isn't PM of Scotland...or Wales. (oh you've seemed to brush the northern Irish under the carpet as well) I talked about British (which you "corrected" into English") because the central government talking to the rest of europe goes for all of you. This: UK-Rebate is what I meant when I sait Britain wasn't paying it's part, but wants to be in the front line when it comes to deciding.
The original goals of the founders of the Euro currency project was to have one federalised European superstate and I concur with Spec that that is where we are headed. A lot of the current debate within Europe is how that will look while they look rather bemused at Cameron's antics on the sidelines. The people of the UK really, really do not get that most of Europe see us as annoying and irrelevant. Walle would you support the break up of the USA into it's individual states? Spec it's good to see you back and posting again.
It's a sort of strange day when I find I can actually agree with something Walle posts. JRS I'd be interested to know where you're located/your nationality because my stab in the dark would be Germany, or at a push France, because they have the most to gain from a united Europe - namely control, or lapdog control, of it. Short of that, and without meaning to sound rude, I'd guess Fantasyland As a part of Europe we can only set our own laws in as much as they don't contravene overriding laws set in Europe. All power is centralised, whether within your own country or a "greater group" like Europe. That in itself doesn't make it bad theoretically. The problem comes when they try to take too much control to feed their own need, be it power, greed or dictatorship. The Scots issue is a whole different ball game, the nationalists who want separation quite simply hate the English throughout history. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether they are or would be governed fairly or judiciously. And you, my friend, are, without doubt, paranoid; a perfect example of how McCarthy got away with his cleansing programme.
This x10^10. We agreed to a common market, to a society run by Belgian bureaucrats. We aren't going to be able to renegotiate our position in the EU because we don't have any real leverage. Its no secret that our biggest strength is the City, and Germany/France want it. I would personally rather leave the EU, that see our way of living change because of a bunch of people in Europe say so.. It becomes ridiculous when we can't kick terrorists out of our country for example. #votetory
