You missed plenty, yes. It is broadly correct to say that Russia have invaded a part of Ukraine and that the old leader fled/was deposed/was ousted after a months long protest movement to get rid of him was successful.
The Budapest Memorandum makes things very, very complicated. The legal obligations to get involved now for the US and UK make the Russian actions potentially gigantic in impact, on a scale of Cold War level, in my opinion. This could go so, so wrong for so, so many people; from the most western of lifestyles to the most central European. It seems to me, that a minority of fools are shitting in a bucket of peace that we are all grateful for - why?
Only if you think that the UK or US is actually honourable enough to honour such a document, which we're not, and neither are the US. We may shame ourselves, we may make the future of nuclear disarmament far far less rosy, we may leave an innocent nation to be bullied and aggressed by the Russians, but the one thing we are apparantly not prepared to do is actually follow our legal obligations if there's a risk that doing so might make the isolationist public unhappy and not vote for whichever flavour of politician is currently in power next time around. The Russians know the west won't get involved more than economically, the Putin regime knows that the Russian public are happy to go to war because they've been programmed so well by the media. The Russians aren't scared in the slightest of the Ukrainian military (although, perhaps should be). Simple as that.
No one best pick up the red phone with Yuri on the other end. Both sides are as bad as each other. Russia are securing there interest and oil lines also protecting Russian nationals from the far right fascist take over in the north, north west. I hate fascists with a passion, so even though Russia have been naughty doing this... I say stamp out fascists at all costs! Just because fash taken over the capital does not mean they represent the rest of Ukraine and there showing that supporting and welcoming the Russian troops. Even there main navel forces are defecting to Russia. Sad to see more and more of the EU are going pro Nazi, look at Greece and Italy, now half of Ukraine. You see it even here in the UK growing more and more. Its a sad reality. Even with the legal obligations signed up years ago that means the US/UK should be involved, its massively hypocritical that UK/US have effectively invaded and occupied so many places illegally all over the world but get away with it every time. US motto should be "Do as i say, not as i do!"
No, but its a strong fascist presences there that isnt really been challenged. Could easily grow into National Socialism.
"Oh you want to keep having gas, Europe? Well stay the **** out of it then" While Russia relies on gas exports to stop economic bankruptcy (AFAIunderstand), they're still in worse shape than most of Europe and I guess would be happy to take the short term hit in terms of long term land-gain invasion. I saw a photo of lots of Ukranian's waving flags signing up to their military. That's one colossal waste of life waiting to happen.
Are you serious? Are you actually saying that the Italian and Greek population identify with blaming and eradicating large, ethnically specific sectors of the human population that live in those countries? You're mad, right? I strongly recommend you spend some time understanding the complexities of their economic troubles before you make such sweeping statements - what you've said is so enormously insulting to those people. 1% (or less, in reality), does not make a Nazi state. They are just extremists. We all have them. What the US/UK have done isn't relevant to this in the slightest. US/UK getting involved is not a matter of them walking in and saying "nope, this is how you need to do things" to secretly benefit the West, it's a matter of the US/UK requesting that Ukraine disarm themselves of Nuclear weapons, on the promise that if they were ever bullied or if their sovereignty came into question [primarily by Russia], the US/UK would ensure they are protected. We aren't honouring that deal to protect them simply because of some ridiculous PR fear, purveyed by the messages that you (and so many other socio-warriors) are banging on about. Do you not understand that more people will die because of a Russian invasion, because Russia are no longer scared enough to not do it? If the US/UK flexed the muscles they were supposed to to ensure that Ukraine's future is Ukraine's decision (rather than Russia's), then this wouldn't have escalated beyond a bit of civil unrest that we have seen so far. What's happened to date has been awful, but if Russia keep going, it will be really, really bad, for many, many people. What you are complaining about the US/UK having done in the past, is EXACTLY the same as what Russia are doing to Ukraine now. People/States/Countries can make mistakes; it doesn't mean they should sit by and watch that mistake being made by someone else, let alone if they are legally obliged to stop it. edit. I like you dude, but what you are saying is really making me lose faith in you being a rational person that is willing to look at the facts for what they are.
Im not say there nazi states or even most of them are fash, but still have a large presences there and growing, and are influential because of it in said countries. Im just sick of the US/UK been hypocritical world police. Like i said at the beginning of my post, Both are as bad as each other. The only reason im slightly more on the Russian side is because the people in Crimea and many east areas hate far right wing fascists and are worried there country will be controlled by them and so they should be! Also lots of them hate the thought of been in the EU. The new right wing gov is now calling on Muslim extremest to help them! What f~cking idiots. http://rt.com/news/yarosh-nationalist-address-umarov-380/ And your sound julian, i just want all fascists, nazis, National socialist DEAD
I don't want to make similar sweeping statements either, but at one point nearly 40% of Greeks would vote for Golden Dawn. I can't find the link I looked at previously which had stats for "%age of population wanting to leave the EU" sorry. I know that's not facist but it's heading in that direction. It's exactly the same situation that Taiwan is now in actually. In 60s and 70s Taiwan tried to develop it's own nuclear deterrent only to be stopped by the US on condition that it would come with military aid if needed. Now, given how much the US relies on China for money/trade, does anyone not think the same will happen again once China gets as bold as Russia? The parallels are disturbing. Don't you see that whoever is in charge is going to be a right-wing nut-job. They will need to pursue a harsh line of rhetoric to sound strong, since it will take outside mediation to control the situation: for anyone who is opposite to the people in charge will live in fear, be it Russian or Ukranian alike.
... there full on Neo-Nazi's mate. just give them a quick google. There not even trying to hide it.. The flag looks like the Nazi Germany swastika
Interesting to see you come down on that side of the fence. I agree completely, the "fascist" thing is an overblown propaganda piece serving a purpose for the Russians, but nevertheless interesting to see your position. What else are the supposed to do? Their country has been invaded, they won't just roll over even if winning seems impossible. Look, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not intentionally lying, but that is simply incorrect. I'll preface this by saying that RT is a propaganda outlet, not a credible news source. Now even if we're to take what they're saying as true, the current president of Ukraine is a member of Fatherland, who are a populist pro-EU centre right (Tories who like the EU, essentially) party. They are not right sector. They are not even close to Right Sector. To make serious accusations one should ensure one is fully aware of a situation, which, you are hopefully not (as the alternative would be malicious). So if a UK government was heavily corrupt, and people from the SSP to the BNP protested against them and a lib dem government took over, you would describe this too as full on neo nazi fascists? This is essentially what you're doing right now. A protest movement can not help it if rightists or leftists support the aims of that movement, and they can not morally stop those people protesting also. Those people are not in the government and most people do not support the goals of those people. To paint the current Ukrainian government as fascist or neo-nazi is horrific. Well, focus your anger on Putin then, he much more closely represents a fascist than anyone in Ukraine does.
You only have to google "Ukraine fascists" to see its an issue. Not saying Ukraine is, just a term to to use to search. It turns up pages and pages of evidence of a fash uprising in Ukraine by multiple sources. I dont want people to think im pro Russia, far from it. There government are a bunch of c-nts as well. Just i see them as lesser of the two evils right now in Ukraine. I said from the start that a large amount of Ukraine are not fash, and are in fact heavily against it. But the main driving forces of the up rising and government take over was fascist driven, large groups of them using swastika type insignias and nationalist armbands. This is why its important for the massive amounts of Ukrainians not to be represented by them or told what to do.
Is anything that turns up google seriously your standard of evidence? Google 9/11 conspiracy theories, that too will turn up pages of junk. You might not seek to further the aims of Russia but you do, by repeating their line of "truth". I'd like to see you justify that with reputable sources (an no, RT does not count). Right Sector are undoubtedly a far right group, but the revolution was carried out by diverse groups of people, from every walk of life, and was largely just normal people. You're painting a popular uprising against a corrupt and authoritarian leadership as a right wing coup, which is exactly what the Russians want the world to think about this.
I can't agree. Putin has effectively driven an Orwellian state and has been in power ~15 years. They've got ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND troops + sea support on the border. The army that is in the country right now has no insignia and won't say they are officially Russian. "Oh we're just here to help our buddies"? Are you ignoring what they did in Georgia? Rolling over a boarder is illegal by international standards. There's no two-ways about it. And even if there are a x number of Ukranian right-wingers throwing molotov's, 100+ of them have died at the hands of the last government and there's no evidence to say they are the overwhelming force in the country. The enemy of your enemy is your friend, regardless of political ideals when you are standing for revolution. They wanted their corrupt president out. Next, the parliament VOTED on ejecting the last president, among other things: they have a functioning democracy that's being utterly ignored in the wake of tanks and troops rolling over the boarder. The parliament didn't vote on "kill all Russians" to my knowledge. The Crimea region has been given NO CHANCE of voice in the Ukrainian parliament. If that democracy is proven to be hollow for them - as it has for rest of Ukraine in the last several years - it must be DIPLOMATICALLY AND POLITICALLY approached by other governments. No quarter was given, this war was long prepared. Rather you than me. I'd get the **** out or keep my head down for now. Not worth the suicide mission.
Actually, Russia can't take even the short term hit : http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...economic-impact-could-include-high-gas-prices Plus winter is over, each country has plenty of gas storage (3 month storage for gas use except industry usage is the mininum required by EU AFAIK), so while it would hurt EU a bit (EU imports 34% of gas from Russia), EU could prepare by getting more gas from Norway or other sources. And sure, while it wouldn't solve all of the use, it will hurt Russia a lot more than it would hurt EU. 45-50% of Russian budget comes from gas and oil incomes, and 80%+ of those exports go to EU. I say even Putin don't have the guts to cut off EU, simply because he can't afford it. Edit: It seems G8 is no more, it's back to G7.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26414285 can Russia actually afford to do this? war isn't just about bombs and guns - the west could reply by crashing the rubble and economically crippling the country.
Dangerous thinking! 'At all costs' really? How many innocent people are you prepared to slaughter to stamp out one fascist? There's a fair few fascists here in the UK. Maybe Russia should invade us next? There's no right answer on what to do about Russia. Putin is a very evil man, but do we try to stop him and start a war (WW III?) or let him expand his borders without resistance? I'm so glad the decisions are not mine to make. I don't want Putin to get away with this, but then I don't want to see the 'ex' (maybe?) fascists in the Ukraine be given the nod that we tolerate their intolerance. I think I'd rather have the new government in power in the Ukraine even if there's a few fascists within their ranks. That way there's a chance democracy will win out. If Putin takes over. That. Is. it.
All the UK has to do is freeze all the Russian money that is being laundered in the City and on the London real estate market. What we defend against, we create.
