Though Joe/Josephine blogs doesn't need to vote for them, the first passed the post system effectively means that if the south east vote Tory the rest of the country gets it rammed down there throats. It has happened before and it will happen again, thats how we ended up with the poll tax riots and why both Scotland and Wales pushed for devolution. My worry is that the Tories will get in and do some thing characteristically stupid while Salmonds lot are in because that's all the impetus the majority will need to vote for independence. When there is a Tory government in Westminster the Scots and probably the Welsh feel as though they are not represented at all by the government since the Torries rarely get more than one seat up here, i know thats just the way the system works but we are talking about the majority and they rarely think let alone think well. I'm not sure about the North of England but i'd be willing to bet its similar.
Don't blame me, I voted Monster Raving Loony. EDIT: I reckon /b/ could probably get the MRL into government if they put their mind to it http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?p=1965705#post1965705
No, times have changed, and if you can compare David Monkey Cameron to Thatcher or John Major, then you are wrong, and going back that far is irrelevant, a lot has happened in 10 years, let alone 100.
If you are that convinced we won't have a Conservative government at the moment you might want to put some money on it. You can get 5-1 on Labour wining the next election, the Conservatives are 1-8 on. http://www.ladbrokes.com/lbr_sports...PECIALS&subtypes=&default_sort=&tab=undefined
That is very unfortunate odds. Cameron is a snake with no convictions and only believes in what is best for Cameron. Labour are doing a great job of shooting themselves in the foot again but i really do believe that the torries would just take us further down the toilet. The Lib Dems have no chance of getting into power and i would vote labour to keep Cameron out. His own party wouldn't even give him a job until he got the palace to pull some strings. Says a lot about the man.
Ah, the voice of youth... It was only as recent as 1997 when New Labour got in power. Many of us over the age of, say, 30 still remember the Thatcher and Major years very vividly. Nobody is happy to go back to that any time soon.
Thats just not true... on that subject something that my political chat goes back to is the Thatcher Years and particularly, Poll Tax. (Before I start, I am probably in a different postion to most of you, so don't jump down my throat while I state my opinion..) I think that with certain other factors in place, poll tax makes perfect sense, why should an elderly widow with money, who doesn't need benifits or healthcare have to pay the same, or more than a less well off family who are a fair bigger drain on public funds. I am aware that in some situations, taxing the poorest cannot happen, but I think that a 'fair' tax scheme needs implimenting, not based on what you earn, but based around how much you use.
Doesn't work. Some people use much but earn little (often for the same reasons that they use much): the disabled, the chronically or seriously ill, families with unskilled working parents. The idea behind taxes is that we all contribute to the communal pile according to our ability and receive according to our needs. This means that the better off amongst us do end up paying more (and if we're lucky, needing less). That's the price you pay for being better off.
Again, please let me disabuse you from that notion. There are plenty of not-well-off people who work their asses off too. There is no absolute correlation between working your ass off and being well off. Luck comes into it too, and ability, and opportunity. I know people don't like to hear that. We want credit for our hard work after all, and we don't want to feel guilty for simply being more fortunate than the less-well-off. So we rationalise that we deserved it (which, to an extent we did) and that the poor, well, they deserved it too because they should have worked harder. But this is not true. Many poor people are just unlucky. They lack the ability, or opportunity, or luck, or a combination of. Ironically there are plenty of poor people who buy into this belief system too, because they want to believe that they can simply change their situation through hard work. And again, to an extent that is true. But not nearly always. (Others bank on luck and buy lottery tickets. Others delude themselves that they have talent and sign up for "the X-Faxtor".) The roots of this belief system can be found in Christian Puritanism: i.e. good stuff happens to good people; bad stuff happens to sinners. So if you were the victim of outrageous fortune, you must have deserved it somehow. The truth is: the cost of living is high. Everybody pays, if not one way then another. Everybody.
Where you are economically is only slightly related to how hard you work, this "bootstraps" mentality is the most fundamentally flawed argument around. A "FairTax" is based on what you earn, not what you need e.g fundamentally you don't spend a penny of the NHS till you get hit by a bus. I've voted for Lib Dems since I was able to votes, they're the only liberal party left and they should seriously be considered.
Providing the next election is after this October (so I can vote) I'll be voting Liberal Democrat too I think. The idea of not paying tax for the NHS if you use private health care is also flawed - it's your choice to use private health care and if you make that choice then you have to accept the extra cost. And the chances are that if you want private health care you can afford to pay the tax for the NHS too...
Working your ass off + being clever = Win. Nexxo, you have a point about a lot of people working hard and not gaining much, but someone has to have the low end jobs, and ability you mean by being clever, then yes, if you aren't smart, your most likely to stay in that £20,000 job for the rest of your life, and like some "lucky" non smart people, they also win the lottery, or get job positions for knowing certain people etc. My parents are a perfect example of how anyone can become wealthy if you have the ability to do so and put your mind to it. Bankrupt twice due to being seriously unlucky, but every time, built themselves back up from nothing (and I mean nothing, benefits), and now turnover a hefty amount per year. Personally, they have worked damn hard for it, but for it to all go to tax is ****ing sickening, I don't know anyone who works harder than them, and if you make it to the top, then you should reap the benefits of being wealthy, it's only the super rich that are actually flying high, and what's the chances of being super rich? Super slim. So I disagree, if you make it successfully, you should be able to enjoy life to the brim, you made it happen, you worked your ass off for 40 years making something from nothing, it's not the wealthy's fault that the majority of workers don't go "Hmm, I need to stop working for someone and be my own boss, this is what I'm going to do, and if I dedicate my life to it, I'll come out better off than now". I think people that see wealth as being "lucky" and then taking the piss out of them being "wealthy" are totally ignorant, being well off is normally from hard work, 12 hour days, 7 days a week, and in some cases, 24 hour days, so if anything, the wealthy deserve the high life, and to be taxed higher because you are successful is wrong, that guy on the TV for that famous Plumbers company is losing £140,000 because of the tax rise, he deserves that money, not the Government, it's not his fault that there is a recession. And? What's got to do with the NHS, if you don't use a service, you don't pay for it, simple as. It's like paying for insurance on a TV you don't own, or buying a PC that you'll never receive.
So basically you're saying that the poor should be taxed more because they're lazy and/or stupid? If you tax the rich less, the deficit has to come from somewhere.
No, working your ass off + being talented + being lucky = Win. Of course you should to able to reap the rewards of your hard work. But your should also keep in mind that many people work hard and make an important contribution to society for very little reward. As you yourself say: someone has to do the crappy unskilled manual labour jobs too. You know: the child care, care for the elderly and disabled, collecting rubbish and cleaning toilets to name a few. And remember how London has a shortage of nurses, teachers and police officers because they cannot afford to live there? We need those people too. They need health and welfare services too. They cannot contribute much in taxes but they sure make their contribution to society as much as any wealthier person does --and the wealthy benefit just as much from those contributions. You once commented on how your parents' business provides jobs for many people, but your parents' business profits from their relatively low-paid grunt work also. No, it is like paying car insurance for a car crash that your think you will never have. Substitute "body" for car and now you get the idea. Let me tell you about, say, acute promyelocytic leukemia for instance. It is one of the worst leukemias you can get. It literally comes out of nowhere: one week you're healthy; the next week you are seriously ill. Untreated, people last about a year. Younger adults are at highest risk, you may be interested to know. Luckily it is also one of the most successfully treated leukaemias. With chemotherapy (and sometimes radiotherapy) and a bone marrow transplant you can be cured and lead a normal, productive life. The price tag for this treatment is a mere £ 100.000,-- or so. Still think you don't need health insurance? Because that is what your National Insurance contributions are: insurance for an eyewateringly expensive, life saving NHS treatment that you hopefully will never need.
QFT. Last Christmas I was a healthy 24 year old, now I'm a couple of months into an accelerated chemo routine having been diagnosed with cancer (stage 4e non-hodgekins lymphoma). I'm sure my treatment is extremely costly and if we were to have no public healthcare system then there is a high chance that I just wouldn't be able to afford to recieve the high quality of care I am getting. There is only a 66% of this chemo even working, and if it does only a 50% chance of it actually curing me. It sucks to be in this situation and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, but to think that this could never happen to you is simply nieve. You may be fortunate to be well off enough to pay for you're healthcare privately (by sponging off your parents or otherwise), but I'm sure you know, and care about people who don't have such fortunate circumstances. Would like to watch them suffering uncessarily because they got ill through no fault of their own and were unable to have access to a decent level of care and support? I suspect not.
Sorry about your situations, hope you get better mate. I can relate somewhat and I agree with you that the NHS is a life saver. I am on a new type chemo for for my kidneys as I have lupus involvment there. Works a treat and stopped me from going on dyalisis however it cost £250 a box and I require 4 boxes a month. There is no way your avarage person can afford that and thats just one of the 7 meds I am one. A girl I know in the states has no insurance and cant afford it so she is on more primative treatments which has made her infertile. Illness like these can happened to anyone and I am so greatful for the NHS.
I think i will be looking else ware for my chance to voice my concerns with our current government. I just hope corruption doesn't follow in their footsteps.
Word of advice: Corruption is one of the many horrible instincts humans have, people drawn to politics are more likely to be effected by it. We're somewhat more isolated from it here than in America since technically its a party in power rather than a central figurehead (not in working practice but it technically, and less so than the US) barring the queen who has as much effect on politics as Brownian motion has on a missile. I do believe in 3rd party politics due to the systematic corruption by labour and the torries through their constant hold on power, however im not stupid enough to think that the Lib Dems wont become corrupt as **** about 4years after they've been in power
