Actually it hurts just as much when you're a child. Arguably worse because you do not yet have the ego strength to manage the pain. It is just that babies cannot articulate their distress as effectively (e.g. punch you in the face and ask if you have gone completely crazy sticking a scalpel in their dick) as adults can, so we pretend that they don't feel it really, or "won't remember". Which we all know is ********. Risk of complications is also bigger. An adult penis is a fairly big and robust organ (no pun intended). A baby's penis is tiny and delicate, and still has a lot of developing to do. Lots more risk of surgery going wrong. While I'm on a roll, I'll also cry BS on the religious and cultural reasons. Frankly I think that religion's obsession with genitals and sex is unhealthy. FGM has one purpose only: to stop a woman enjoying sex, which is some ****ed-up way of trying to control her reproductive ability as if she were breeding livestock. I also strongly suspect that male circumcision was basically meant to stop men masturbating. 'Cause you can't, like, just enjoy your body in one of the most natural ways possible. In George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four one of the protagonists, Julia, observes that Big Brother actively discourages sexual intercourse in its citizens (she herself is a member of the young women's anti-sex league) to ensure that all that frustrated energy gets sublimated into aggression, hate for the 'enemy' and a single-minded fanatic worship of Big Brother. "All this marching up and down and cheering and waving flags is simply sex gone sour". No more devout followers than sexually frustrated followers.
Oh I believe you, how do babies process pain if they cannot articulate it? Do they forget the pain quicker than an adult would? It's a surgical procedure, they all have complications and as you said they should only be used when necessary. As with all things you have extreme cases such as this.
Simple, they suffer as you or I would. Actually, now that I think of this side properly the practice becomes even more blatantly primitive, barbaric and inhumane. Imagine yourself unable to communicate with your tormentor, yet utterly reliant upon them, unable to give voice to your situation, unable to effect your situation through any physical means, unable to process any rationalisation of the pain or understand reason in any way. As an adult this would be akin to being immobilised/bound, gagged, all sounds incomprehensible without even understanding that it might be a language as that concept does not even exist, your vision blurred to the point of unrecognisable forms of light and dark except for unfamiliar face shapes at close range (<18 inches) - a small number of which you have seen before, then have someone chop the end of your penis off and none of the other factors change to allow any release, excepting the interminably slow process of healing and desensitisation of the exposed body part. Of course as an adult you would have to extend that slow process to a representative time in proportion to the sum total duration of your aware existence... Having dealt with the look of shock, pain, confusion and betrayal on my own sons face when he received immunisation injections about a year old, it makes me nauseated to even think about subjecting him to something as horrific as circumcision with no logical rationale. Sent from my MZ604 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
Religious circumcision is a very diluted form of child sacrifice of you think of it. Every sacrifice you make commits you more to the cause. The more you invest, the harder it makes it to question your commitment and back out.
While we are on the subject can any one tell me why circumcision is so much more popular in the U.S. than other christian countries?
Large Jewish immigrant population around ww2 time back? Don't know, just guessing. Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
Not really. Some people are circumcised but unhappy about it; some don't care, some are in favour. Some people are not circumcised and are against it, and some don't care. The ones that are in favour are free to choose to have it done. The point is that babies don't.
cause our penis is bigger on this side of the pond? .. I have no idea really I can't mention stds again either or I get banned xD maybe has to do with jewish integration.. all know is- it isn't something you even remember.. and I've never had any issues with it- so maybe if your junk is falling off someday and the girls are scared of your flagpole.. it might be time to get to snippin
The same could be said for removing ear-lobes, one testicle or your appendix. You wouldn't remember having those things done at an early age and could still live a perfectly normal life. Should parents be able to do that to their children?
Why stop there, if there is family history of glaucoma let's have the eyes out so they don't have that hassle in later life. Reductio ad absurdum, not a suggestion Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
Ah, the "It never did me any harm" argument. The problem is that medically it constitutes an unnecesary risk. Our local Children's Hospital receives 100 babies a year where the procedure has gone badly wrong. Some will be disfigured for life in an aspect of their body and functioning that is pretty important. Two a year die. All for an arbitrary religious tradition.
who knows, all i know is in general american women don't like uncut males. i had this circumcision argument with IDS when our little boy was born, i totally refused... >no personal information about other people please --Nexxo< i prefer my males uncut
That certainly is a valid hypothesis, but it's worth stating for the sake of argument that the historical reasons for circumcision are many, and from what I gather there isn't any clear agreement on just why people started doing it. Like so many Jewish traditions, it could just as easily have roots in hygiene. I admit that hygienic reasons aren't as valid anymore with current attitudes toward bathing and cleanliness. The American Academy of Pediatrics looked at the research and came to the conclusion that yes, there is scientific evidence of benefits; however, there is insufficient data to recommend it as a routine procedure. In this case, they leave it at the parents' discretion. Regarding the argument about the pain endured during the procedure, the AAP's policy states that an analgesic should be used to reduce any pain felt. I'm curious if that's more of an American thing, or if analgesics are routinely used elsewhere in the world.
I always found it a bit weird that a person who had never had sex (discounting the odd alter boy here and there) are in a position of telling other people how their sexual preference/method/partner should be. It really is a sick system where you put the least qualified or educated in the lead for Billions of people. On topic however ALL permanent alterations of small children should be punishable in my head, be it circumcision or even something as small as earrings as it is custom to give girl babies some places in the world. As a parent you have no right what so ever to make such decisions on behalf of your child, regardless of tradition, religion or any other reason.
Flipside of the coin, just throwing it out there, is it is actually quite hard to get an adult circumcision on the NHS - and going private costs nearly 5 grande. I need to have a circumcision, the doctor's told my parents when I was a kid I would probably need to be circumcised, and my parent's decided that it would be better if I wasn't (they only told me this when I bought it up with my mum a few months ago about the problems I have had especially recently and if she could fill me in on the state of play when I was a kid) - now at 26 years old suffering from pretty bad phimosis I kinda wished they had. I agree it's wrong purely for aesthetic or religious reasons, and of course it is mutilation, but if it's for valid medical reasons I think the choice should be taken away from the parents and more dictated. I resent my parents quite a lot for not getting me circumcised as a child as its made life moderately uncomfortable for most of my life, but for the last 6 months has rendered my penis almost entirely useless. I have got a referral to see specialist beginning of august, but it still doesnt mean I can get the procedure and if I can't get it on the NHS, well I don't really know what I can do. I know its a pretty macro arguement as alot of countries don't have the healthcare we do, so I sound like a bit of a ***** moaning that someone isn't going to pay for this for me. Granted I should have probably spoken to the doctor before it's got to this stage, but funnily enough I haven't really found it the easiest thing to talk about. To be honest now my mind is a bit in turmoil, half for fear of not being able to get the procedure and half in fear of actually having the procedure, or reasons why its got worse recently, obviously my already enormous penis has got even bigger...or at least that's what I tell myself to at least get a smile out of the situation. A man with a useless penis isn't really much of a man, which isn't really the healthiest way to think but sometimes that's pretty much how it makes me feel, and I could have just had a procedure done 25 years ago and not had this mental anguish. TLDR; Religeous = NO, Medical = YES.
Will the NHS not operate given the effect that it is having on your life? Sorry to hear about your problem Margo, if it helps I have had three operations on one of my testicles in the last 2 years!
The NHS should provide this treatment as it is clearly medically required. Your GP, as fund holder, has considerable influence. Get him/her to hassle the specialists.
Thanks for the vote of confidence and I'm more sorry for you now as I am yet to go under the knife! It's not that they won't I haven't got far enough down the line for a decision to be made yet, I am seeing the specialist on the 6th August and my GP implied that this is where the decision is made. My GP has implied that it is the specialist who makes the decision, who I am yet to see yet, I am seeing him 6th August. I mean, I can't see them not doing it, but it's always in my mind that they might not, and then I don't know what I will do! I guess cross that bridge when it comes.