News Apple launches HTML 5 demo site

They bat on about open standards being the future and replacement for flash, and then prove that we are no way near ready for it by restricting it to safari.....

 

Absolutely. As I mentioned in my previous post, Youtube HTML5 only works properly on Safari too. Chrome will allow you to view it normal sized and in standard definition, whereas Safari will offer full screen HD if HD is available.

Whilst both browsers are based on Webkit, Chrome differs slightly and that (I think) is what makes the difference.

 

5-10 years back, Flash was so heavily used in every project and on every webpage, that it became standard to use. But, it was only used, because it was (and still is) far easier to design a stunning looking page in Flash then it is in HTML+CSS+Javascript.
You've got all those nice possibilities of tweening, fading, etc etc etc and once the Flash-file is loaded, there's no need for additional pagecalls, but the content like images in a gallery, or streaming audio/video... and you're not bound to div and table-formatting aswell ofc.

HTML5 and CSS3 introduces alot of options to make pages look as stunning as Flash-based pages, but 100% W3C-compliant, without any plugins. The Flash-Plugin itself is actually the problem here, as it opens doors for lot's of crap you don't wanna see and can't control. You can't read the sourcecode of the Flash-file, like you can read the sourcecode of HTML for example.

Not to need any plugins is the right direction imho, as it gives you, the user!, more control.

Apple doesn't have anything against Adobe itself, Apple has something against PlugIns, as PlugIns ruin the efforts to develop stable and safe OS' and software.
There's a reason, why they don't allow to use Apps on the iPhone or iPad by default, but limit the users to the Apps available through their store.
They test every App, to guarantee a stable and safe working machine.

Now back to Flash... Apple simply can't guarantee, that Flash-based stuff won't harm your system, as they can't test every Flash-application flaoting around in the www.

I'm working as a graphics-designer and web-developer for 15 years now, and I'm doing lot's of things in Flash myself (clients still do want that fancy stuff!), but from a users POV I totally hate Flash, especially because I know what possibilities there are to execute unwanted code.

 

+rep for the link - They work better in Chrome on vista for me

 

agreed, especially these days when we've got jQuery which saves so much work in javascript, i code most of the stuff using jQuery for which i'd reach for flash some time ago. i've don't really care about flash since it's blocked on my borser (click2flash).

quite good test for html5 - http://html5test.com/

and please do not forget - html5 is not standard yet, spec is still being written and for example video tag (wars between h264, ogg, vp8) is still as 'undefined'

but supporting html5 in this stage could speed up this process of standardization.

 

Why not just allow non safari browsers to view it, but slap up a big "As you're using Firefox x.x which isn't compliant with X, Y & Z - you'll find this bit is bust" (I'm sure they could tidy up my version)

I'm using Snow Leopard, but I don't use Safari, I'm FF all the way

 

Why not let html 5 replace flash on merit - support both and then we can all view everything? Sure promote html 5 if you think it's good, but until it replaces flash support the current standard.

Most users don't care what standard you are using - they just want to view the web pages. If they can't do that then you have failed.

 

Its strange how Apple is championing web freedom against Flash, then lock their html5 demo to Safari use only. Their audio & video demos which uses "industry-standard format" H.264 video and MPEG-4 audio is only viewable with Apple's own QuickTime.

So, if you're using a PC you have to download Safari to view the demo. But, Safari for PC isn't HTML5 compatible (scores less than Firefox using http://html5test.com/), so the VR section of the demo doesn't even work.

 

Steve Jobs : If you see flash , you blew it

 

That paragraph is basically all wrong. It's not that Adobe won't make Flash for iPhone, it's that Apple wouldn't let them do it in any way. Adobe bothered to make a compiler that would let people develop for the iPhone in Flash, Apple blocked it. There is flash on mobiles, Android has the full flash experience working just fine, and it's coming to Blackberry and WinMo as well. That's Flash 10, not Flash 5/6.

How do you know that flash doesn't have a future? Yes, you can do a lot of the things formerly used for Flash in HTML, but I have yet to see a game that works well with HTML5 and embeds as easily as a swf file. Google engineers spent time getting Quake 2 (yes, 2) working in HTML5, they managed it eventually, but it required a whole specialized webserver to work properly!

That's debatable. Certainly, the FTC in America are investigating to work out whether Apple are using unethical tactics to block out Adobe. Also, versions of sites optimized for mobile are often very low on graphical stuff, so flash isn't necessarily a necessity. It's only as they get faster (read: snapdragon cpus) that the graphical stuff becomes worthwhile.

That sounds like a typical PR line! Flash is actually faster than HTML5, when you're comparing two things together.
Proof: Google Chrome (on Windows) Flash 58% faster than HTML5 on Youtube.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...eat_flash_surprising_results_of_new_tests.php
More hardcore things such as canvas, vectoring and text: Flash still wins by a long way for what it's designed for.
http://www.craftymind.com/guimark2/
HTML only beats flash for text manipulation, and that's due to a chrome windows bug. I tested it again, and
Flash is actually remarkably optimized, it's just that some would have you think otherwise. HTML is good, yes, but doing nice effects in it

Me too, but I don't think it's good to prejudge anything as being a killer of Flash. In almost every test I've seen, Flash 10.1 beats HTML5 by quite a long way, especially with anything remotely 3d.

 

Sure are a lot of people in here talking about html/css vs flash who sound like they've never written either.

 

Flash allows to execute harmful code, without the user able to do anything about it. You can't block or detect it, if it's executed from within the flash-film.

That is the only reason why Apple doesn't support Flash on the iPhone and the iPad.

 

i think poorly written flash apps are the cause of most browser problems.

i'm no programmer, but i can tell you that all my browser crashes are because of flash. maybe thats why there is no 64bit flash player for x64 windows browsers

 

Don't know where you read that, but it's not true. Yes, there are exploits that can lead to Flash executing harmful code, but if you are on the latest versions of Flash it's quite hard to find, much harder than a while ago.

What you're saying is basically just scaremongering - if there are so many holes, why do so many people use flash? There'd be a massive outcry if someone found out that Flash's security was like a big sieve, it's just not true.

That could well be the case. Flash itself is pretty stable, but if your code has errors in and you have debugging off, who knows what could happen!

 

I know flash can crash a bit but it really is a pain for ipad users and other apple product users to be surfing the web and then get annoyed when they can't look at something as it requires flash.

 

A simple search on google will tell you, that I'm not telling crap.

I'm a web-developer for 15 years, and I'm coding Flash since version 4 allready.... and yes: I can still implement lots of harmful code into Flash, if I'd like to.

How many sites are we talking about here? Most sites I'm browsing don't use any Flash at all actually for their regular content, and for youtube you got an App for the iPhone and the iPad.

 

The main reason steve jobs said he was dropping flash was because 'it is one of the prime sources of instability in the mac OS'. If flash is such a problem for apple then how come ubuntu, a free and open OS can now run flash even better than windows, i run window s7 and ubuntu, flash runs smoother and looks better on ubuntu than it does windows, if ubuntu can do it for free then why can't apple with all their financial backing. All this about the big problems with flash and apple striving for a more 'open' web standard is just them faceting over their own desires for 'conquering' the web and filling it with apple products.

 

Did you see the keynote where Jobs was first showing off the iPad? all the holes in the New York Times site where the photos were suppose to be for articles still stands out in my mind. Basically, in order to get your site to look the same way on the ipad/iphone as it does on the web you have to develop an app. Maybe that works for large companies that can afford to do so, but there is ALOT of content out there on sites where they just can't afford to.

Don't get me wrong, I think both companies are in the wrong here. Flash has become a bit of a lumbering dinosaur that desperately needs a good recode. Hell, even the dev environment needs a proper update. Everything else in the CS4 suite runs beautifully on my i7, but Flash consistantly studders and freezes.

 

(Full) Flash 9 runs fine on my N900. Not Flash Lite. And to date it has yet to crash my N900.

Any other company that says otherwise is simply lazy.

 

It's ironic that they are touting this new OPEN platform when they force you to have their own browser to view it.