I was catching up on the news today, and came across this article on the BBC news website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15242103 It's pretty sad to consider that Britain still has such sharp divides in terms of financial well-being. It's also scary to consider that many British working families are falling below the poverty line. These are not people who are work shy, or benefits malingerers. These are people with excellent work ethics, who are being squeezed financially, more and more. I personally think we are seeing a return to the have/have not society, where the poor get poorer and the rich get richer. Then again though, has the divide ever been less than it is now? Everything we buy is getting more expensive, all the bills we pay are getting more expensive, but the worth of our work is becoming less. With all the doom and gloom in the world wide economy at present, and not a lot of hope of improvement in the near future, I am left asking how hard will it really become for those who are just about managing to survive financially now? When watching or reading about the state of the economy, it's easy to forget the human aspect of what we are learning. Whilst our governments and financial institutions are playing Russian roulette with our economies, do they really appreciate the hardship that is being inflicted on large swathes of our society?
"Single adult, no children: £165 per week Couple, no children: £248 per week Lone parent, 1 child: £215 per week Lone parent, 2 children: £264 per week Lone parent, 3 children: £314 per week Couple, 1 child: £297 per week Couple, 2 children: £347 per week Couple, 3 children: £396 per week" While income disparity is getting worse in the UK the idea of "poverty" in the UK is rather off.
TBH I think everyone except the super-rich are getting poorer, its just more noticable for working class families. Leaving the E.U would save a bit of money...
It's OK quoting those figures, which on their own look not too bad, but then start totting up the basic living expenses (council tax, gas, electricity, water, rent/mortgage etc.), and put those figures next to yours. I would be willing to bet that there would be many who were struggling to feed and clothe themselves than we actually realise or really care to know about.
Ugh. Only a TINY TINY amount of the UK population suffers from actual poverty (I guess some homeless people who have no shelter, no sustainable access to food etc). I'm surprised that the IFS are calling this absolute poverty since I very much believe that conclusion to be false. There's a big difference between what the 3.1 million British children (as per the report) will experience and what 3.1 million children would experience in, say, Niger. In-fact I'm fairly disappointed to see the IFS refer to this as absolute poverty - that seems downright insulting to so many people in other countries. It's sad to see living standards get worse, but we suffered a pretty major recession (data last week shown we actually lost 7.1% of our wealth/GDP over the recession; and NIESR today have said the recovery is the slowest since the first World War!). The fact that our living standards have only got marginally worse is, to me, fairly amazing. There's no easy answer to this, to be honest. Households, companies and Governments all lived outside their means across the West. Now we're paying the price. Not with 'real' absolute poverty, though.
I would say that poverty isn't the best choice of words to use to describe the situation our poorest families are finding themselves in. I do accept that it would be insulting to those who really are fighting a battle for their lives, in true poverty, day in day out. Having said that though, it doesn't mean we should ignore or place contempt on the problems people here are suffering, often at no fault of their own. I read an article some weeks ago, in which it described the increase in numbers of people seeking food handouts from a specialist charity called FareShare (a jump of 20% in the space of a year). The charity claims that many of the 33,000 who were seeking food were from previously stable backgrounds. As the effects of the global recession continue to filter down to the populace, I wouldn't be surprised to see this trend continue. There are many families now here in the UK, who have to make the choice between feeding their families nutritious meals, or pay the bills on time. When I say bills, I mean the basic bills, and not hire purchase agreements etc. Buying essential items of clothing is often becoming a luxury now too. As a supposed "modern society", I find this shocking.
@StingLikeABee: I would agree with that. We definitely aren't in a great situation and it'll get worse before it gets better. I also agree that of course we shouldn't ignore or look down on UK citizens who are suffering; I hope my post didn't come across that way. I guess it's just annoying when some quarters seem to think the UK have it awful compared to most of the World (when - even with this recession - we still have it pretty great compared to most). You are right though.
I think we are pretty much batting from the same wicket here. I've heard many of my friends complaining about the financial situations they are in, while they have excessive and opulent spending habits, and cannot see that habits like these frequently come back to bite you on the bum. I have very little sympathies for people who find themselves in trouble due to bad personal financial habits or consumer greed. I do appreciate though, the fact that there are many people finding themselves in real financial difficulties, who have lived within their means, and have worked hard and have good work ethics. This is where my sympathies lay.
Been this way for years now, especially since Thatchers neoliberal agenda. Privatisation, deregulation, and 'financial liberalisation' - pushed down wages, increased job insecurity, and allowed MNC's to put billions of £s into offshore accounts in Jersey and Channel islands, avoiding their tax obligations. Couple that with weak labour laws thanks to the Tories and New Labour, and you have corporate Britain. "Richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest" http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jan/27/unequal-britain-report
+1 Yes, in real terms Britons are very far from 'poverty' but I do accept the lower socio-economic class is facing an escalated challenge at present. I find myself torn: On the one hand, as a single person myself; I know it would be impossible to live on even the quoted "Couple & 3 children rate" in a 2011 London. But equally I remind myself of how implausible it is that two people, together, could earn so little money. (Forgoing the lesser-abled if I may) If, however improbable, said situation somehow did arise; then the chart is of no relevance as they would be satisfactorily liquid to sustain themselves until such a time as they resumed proper employment. My living standards drop exponentially every time someone bandies about the "R word" as being the crux of all of Britains current quandaries. The problem was, and continues to be a distinct lack of the 'P word' - planning - by all guilty parties mentioned above. This can't be true: You don't go from a stable job to eating out of a soup kitchen overnight. Nevertheless perhaps I should rephrase. "This must be greatly exaggerated." If you have had a stable job for any reasonable period of time, you will have considerably more than sufficient fiscal means to carry you through any 'bad times' unless you lived at the very edge of a wild excess - in which case, boofrigginghoo, you didn't plan and now you're suffering! But it's okay! Take a few days and compose yourself, and then take the steps necessary to return to your former glory, without the capitalist decadence. Job done? TSB
Seems a pretty inevitable consequence of capitalism. As time passes those with the best network of resources (i.e. legal expertise, accountancy, IT, logistics, marketing etc.) get bigger, and with technology increasingly able to push people out of jobs there becomes an increasing amount of people all fighting for scraps at the bottom of the heap. I'm not saying 'capitalism = bad, there's a better way' because there's a fairly recognised concept that if you don't keep growing you must be dying. A society based around the importance of a growing economy is unsustainable, but at the same time if anyone can ever come up with a system that is sustainable and doesn't necessitate a growing population/economy you can paint me pink and call me Deborah. It's a Catch-22. C'est la vie.
Lies. You can comfortably live in a decent flat in central London for not much over £200/w. Knock that down to somewhere less central and live a meagre existence and you'd cut that very easily. That's not to say the place is cheap though, and that's renting a single room with communal living space (i.e. student style). I think there are a lot of people starting to live under or near their means, but that just means they should look at economising rather than moaning.
I would disagree to an extent with this. I would agree that there are people who have lived beyond their means, who will now be facing the consequences of this due to the recession. On the flip side, I believe that there are people on low incomes who were struggling before the recession, who managed to live according to their means, and are now being forced to try and live with an unsustainable income. I think it shows ignorance to try and suggest that this isn't the case.
We spend too much on Drainers, supporting crackheads in rehab. Or paying for ex convicts to go to college at any age when law abiders have to pay.. stop this bad boy supporting society and lower the tax we pay with the cost saving. better still lethal inject the scum and save 50k a year per inmate
I love this ****. I love how everybody talks about the poor as those other people. People who are just bad with money, live beyond their means, failed to save for a rainy day. I love how everybody finds some way to blame them for why they are poor, because we can then rest assured that it will never happen to us. We will never end up poor, destitute, disenfranchised. 'Cause we're not stupid, like them. And I really, really love the whole persecution of "crackheads" and "drainers", because we can really go to town on them, blaming them for everything that's wrong with the world safe in the knowledge that these people are sub-human and in no way anything like us. Nothing like feeling superior to feel better about yourself in scary times. It worked so well for Nazi Germany.
Look - before we start repeating ourselves for the sake of it (this has been discussed many a time)....the death penalty is NOT cheaper! Have a look at some of the costs that certain states in the US of A have for executing a felon compared to life imprisoment. Then come back and spew less garbage in a debate! The reality is that we are far to well off anyway - middle class upwards! A lot of people are living well above their means which does not help the problem, but what do you expect since they have been spoonfed to consume since day 1? If we did stop supporting Drainers, crachkeads and ex-cons what would that say about us? Would you really want to live like that? And if you are so pissed off about the situation, why not do something about it? Got some suggestions? /Apologies for ranting - but I do not see how any of what was said there is constructive to this or any arguement!
Well, there is an argument that they're doing it wrong. Putting someone in prison for a dozen years while they have another couple of goes at the legal system is costly. A bullet to the head after the "guilty" verdict and the donning of the black cloth to pronounce the sentence, that's the cheap version. In that case we need to end the cycle, stop teaching people to consume so much, stop giving them a free ride. How do we make a start? Ex-cons need help to re-enter society, so they can make a positive contribution. Crackheads also need help, to get them off the drugs and to re-enter society, so they can make a positive contribution. As for drainers... could someone explain that term please?
Well, I certainly hope I'm not guilty of the above, and I don't for one minute subscribe to that particular chain of thought either. The point I have been trying to make throughout this thread, which has been somewhat ignored, is that there are people who are being seriously affected by the global recession, and the human fallout is something which is often being ignored, glossed over or even just treated with contempt. We have people saying they should just stop moaning, others saying they should live according to their means, but no-one wants to admit that there are families out there who have suffered and are suffering, and who have done nothing wrong, other than to take what work is available to them, and to work damned hard. As for Yeoo's outburst, what would be the next step after we killed all the criminals and drug users? Disabled people? Immigrants? Smacks of the final solution to me.
No, actually they aren't. Goats are by far less picky and less specialized. Goats are the cockroaches of the mammals. Respect the goat.
