First Viewing of Matrix Reloaded + Story Discussion [*Contains Spoilers*]

Yeah, there's a thread in gaming about the Hacking, will probably tell you how in there.

Should be easy enough to find through Google if not.

 

Not sure if this has been raised before, but did anybody notice that 90% of the Zion inhabitants were Black?
Is there some significance to this?

Also, could they not afford to hire Donald Sutherland for the end?
Reminds me of the Gordon Street scene from Waynes World 2,
talk about cheap imitations

 

yeh i noticed that a lot of zion's inhabitants were in fact black!! didnt occur to me before though! of course it could just be the lighting tricking us all!!

Lol the guy at the end did look like donald sutherland!! good point!!

4DD!S

 

Okay having watched the matrix once and the matrix reloaded twice this week (and all of the animatrix episodes at the cinema today I might add ), I have a total Matrix overload!

First
I don't agree, or like, the multiple matrices idea... It's too messy, too sloppy. It rules out the whole Second Renaissance story, written by the wachowski bros, this story would be a waste of time if it weren't the REAL WORLD.

Second
Neo has code in him. That code would "usually" disseminate at the choice of the other door, and choice of 23 humans. Smith has part of this code in him. Thus Neo and Smith are equals, and as we know equals repel. Me and my mate's theories go along the lines of an EMP blast taking out the sentinals. Somehow this code in Neo is affected by the EMP blast and puts Neo into a coma. Similarly, Bane/Smith is put into a coma after the use of an EMP, which we know was triggered early, and probally by Bane/Smith.

Third
It is this code in Neo which causes the dreams. The dreams are a part of a control method to make Neo believe in the fate thing.

Fourth
The TV room. We see this in The Matrix. We are introduced to the 'no mouth, insert bug' scene via a grid of the same style TV's. This shows the architect is watching Neo's movements, and has been for a while. Why, I haven't worked that out fully yet...

Fifth
The black people thing. Not meaning to be racist in this point I add now. The matrix is basically our world now. So white people are more comformed to the world and the ideals, and black people would be more likely to let go. Thus easier to be free'd from the matrix.

As I said, this is a combination of long talks with mates and compiling ideas. All of which lead to this agree'd answer. We may not be right, but it is our beliefs.

 

And of course, the black gene is dominant, the same as dark hair and brown eyes is. I know they're only four generations down (100 years) but it could be a factor.


Something else I remember from the game earlier. Commander Lock is talking with Niobe about the counter attack for the defense of Zion, and tells her he convinced the council to let her stay behind. He said her ship was too small, and the EMP basically insignificant. He did it because he loves her.

Niobe didn't take terrible kindly to this, which is why she looks so determined in Reloaded when she answers the council's call and volunteers to find the Nebuchadnezzar and help Morpheus.

Not so much a point for discussion, but just explains her actions, and the look exchanged between her and Lock, and how the game fits in with the movie.

 

hey dudes, it my first post on here.....

ive been catchin onto the idea (from danielctull) of neo bein effected by sum sort of emp blast which took out the sentinals... but i still dont really no how they could get a program or code into a supposed human on the outside world (zion).... this wood probs b possible with like a matrix ina matrix, but thats gettin too deep for me

Also, if they were taken out by sum emp thing, surely it wood have effected the on coming ship, or they would have picked up this blast????? just sum idea's goin round in my head....

 

Oh that reminds me..

When Smithy/Bane cuts his hand, is he trying to get his DNA on/in Neo. Maybe a way of copying himself on the outside world...

 

pointage im pretty much sold on the whole 2 matrix concept meself, i dont see that the machines would allow peeps to 'reject' the idea and run off. The architect hints at this i think. The way i read it was that the only way they could get the matrix to work was that people had to subconscieously have a choice, and so a percentage of people would reject the matrix and get flushed. I dont believe the machines would put up with this, so just made them think theyd been flushed (i dont think im not making much sense ) so theyre all still in the matrix.

Although as i havent played the game or seen animatrix (yet) there may be flaws in my idea, oh well

 

bloody good idea there (cutting hand).... i never thought of it like that before, and it would probably work, depending on how they are both setup (matrix in a matrix and that)


i think the whole '101' room number's and floor number's is just a cool anecdote (i think thats right) and might not meen anything; just a cool thing 2 look out for in the films... but who know's, it may play an important part yet.... know 1 know's... or do they?

 

note to add:::: i wander if the people who are actually programs (for example, smith, or the keymaker) in the matrix would age like the rest of the normal people in the matrix..... nuffin to do with the story, but an interestin thought none the less... maybe because the oracle has possible been in the matrix from the start (5-6 zions earlier), this would explain why she looks old.....

 

1. Second Renaissance story coems form Zions histroy data banks or soemthing doesn't it? This history could have been planted there by the machines to furthur the illusion that they had actually escaped, perhaps?

2. Hmm but how do you explain agent smith leaving in Banes body then?

 

1. Yeah that has occured to me.

2. One of the first things we are told, the person in the matrix is "the digital projection of your mental self". So Bane bacame Smithy, thus Banes mental self has become Smithy. Smithy is in Banes mind and just needs to be unplugged.

Of course this throws up the question: How does Smith copy himself to wirelessly connected users? Agents can't move into "unplugged" minds, only people who are still hardwired to the matrix network. More importantly though: how has he learnt how to do all of this?

 

wait, are you saying there was a scene in the FIRST matrix with a TV filled room? cause i don't remember that. could you maybe explain that part to me a lil more?

 

Basically, we see a few of those TVs and in the picture is Neo in the interigation room. And it zooms into and through one of the screens there...

It's as if there is a camera monitoring it all and it being shown on the screens of the architect's room. Of course then we didn't see the whole room in The Matrix just a few of the screens. Now we know what/where these are

 

I don't think you should look to far into this, it was only an intergation room, and plus I didnt think they had planned on doing the second and third films when they made the first?

 

the fact that agent smith "infected" a human, or got into their body, or how ever you want to describe it... it doesnt surprise me.

i agree mostly with zap's earlier posts, as do many people... a matrix within a matrix. creating a deeper illsion of free choice, for the people could did not accept the original matrix. i suppose you could picture it as a sort of back-up... it is inevitable that some people would not accept the matrix, the machine knew this. machines being logical it only makes sense for them to create a back up, and/or "real world".

back to agent smith. ****, i was on a train of thought. i cant remember what i was thinking about him...

lets say say that there are 2 levels of the matrix, one for people who accept the original design, and another, as a backup, for the more complex minds... a more complexly programmed matrix.
and lets suppose that there is a "firewall" of some sorts, to keep these rouge programs within the limits of their own matrix (though, so far the only rouge programs we have seen, are in the "matrix", apposed to "real world: matrix")... ill come back to this.

I dont believe Neo to be a pogram. The architect never said that there have been 6 "Neo's", as if Neo has lived 6 lives, he just said that the matrix has been re-started 6 times. If agent smith(a program) can find a way from "the matrix" into "the real world", this is one step closer to connecting humans and computers. If there have been 6 "ones", or "neos", this mean that the machine would have had to control a human mind in its pure form.

---here is where my minds strays

humans are///no///... *the human body* is essentially an extremely complex computer. the fact that in real life compters can send electrical signals to our brains, and vice versa is an example of this relation. So if the human body is meerly a complex computer. In the movie it would be possible that "humans" in the real world (not the "real world" version of the matrix) are all just highly evolved machine. no? suppose that these machines have evolved so highly that they have evloved into a different species... humans.

from that point there are many possibilities.... that there is a different race, of something, that is harvesting humans("machines") and that the real world, is another 3rd matrix. creating ultimate control.
or.....nevermind

my god my head hurts. im done for now

dez

 

The Wachowski's originally went to WB and said they want to do a trilogy. At which point another dude said that they shouldn't be getting ahead of themselves So yes, the whole time throughout doing The Matrix, it was meant to be a trilogy.

That is some deep thinking there! All a possibility, although I still don't like the 2+ matrices idea.

Of course if Neo did come out into the REAL real world, it would be the start of the prophecy... He'd be the one at the start who first escaped. Of course he would've been him only to escape to the matrix real world.

So if Neo became the original real one in the Real real world, he would free the others and would die somehow. There would then be another one latter on (as the prophecy suggested). Would this lead to another series of movies? No. This of course would lead to the start of the Matrix, with Neo replaced now with someone inside the matrix real world, and him escaping to the real real world. then him finding out it wasn't actually the real real world. it was just another layer of the matrix.

Loops. It would just loop around and around.

Of course what we are forgetting, is that this loop would probally destroy the matrix and everyone in it. the end

 

Ah fair enough! See why the 'other dude' said that.

The architect never said anything about Neo, he said about the anomly, as its based on a mathmatical possiblity there will always be 'one' anomly therefore making Neo the 'one'

 

Get ready... this isn't going to be short.

After re-watching the film. this is what I have to say:

Neo is not a program. The architect states that Neo *has* the anomaly, not that Neo IS the anomaly.

The oracle is a program, they say so in the film. you cant deny that fact.

I'm beginning to wonder whether 'Agents' (the upgraded type) and they key-maker may in fact be human. Why do I say this? in the château the guy who said "its like wiping your arse with silk" (cant remember the name), said "look.. hes only human" after seeing Neo bleed when he blocked the blade of a sword. This leads me to conclude that only humans bleed. Later on after the château, Morpheus cuts the cheek of an Agent with a samurai sword, he bleeds; then later after that, the key-maker is shot dead, when shown on-screen, his chest is bloody. I may bee looking too far into it, but its certainly something to think about.

The 'tea-house guy' isn't the protector of the Oracle. He states "I am the protector of that which is most important", which I take to mean as either Neo himself, or the human race, not the oracle.

When speaking to the architect, Neo thinks he's speaking of the oracle when he says "if I am the father of the matrix, she would be the mother". I'm not convinced that he means the oracle. My thoughts are along the lines of... the woman from the château. The guy at the château (same 'silk arse' guy). He was made at the beginning of the matrix, so its logical to conclude that she too is from the same time. the purpose of 'the mother' is to understand the human psyche? well, all this 'kiss me so I can understand your love for trinity' stuff would make sense. so thats my view... Shes the mother of the matrix, not the oracle.

Matrix in a matrix: this is obvious, of course theres a matrix in a matrix. I have yet to hear a valid theory otherwise.

Neo's coma: I think I now agree that he's 'truly' awake. But I'm not sure. In the game, it says that trinity must save him because his mind has separated from his body... in the matrix. This is still a puzzle for me, I don't think we'll find out 'till the next film.

'The twins' : if you look carefully when the car explodes, they turn 'ghost-like', as in they have no physical form (like when one of 'em got into the car while it was in motion). This obviously means they have survived and are more than likely in the next film in one way or another.

Morpheus & the agent: Morpheus does in fact defeat the agent. shortly after he falls onto Niobe's car, he leaps into the air, kicking the agent off the truck while saving the key-maker. So the question still survives: "how did Morpheus beat an agent, if Neo is the only person capable of such a feat?"

'The ONE' : the 'ONE' is an anomaly. not a person. A person gains the anomaly (for whatever reason). As we see it, Neo has the anomaly. The anomaly is a mathematical equation and/or variable. some variables seem to be passed from one version of the matrix to another (such as programs like the 'silk arse' guy), so each time the matrix is 'reset' (or 'upgraded' whatever your view) these variables still exist and affect the matrix. This is how there was other 'the ONEs', the anomaly existed in each and every version, being passed on with each 'upgrade'. Neo is the latest person to receive the 'anomaly'. also something to think about is the possibility that more than one person received the anomaly - this would explain Morpheus's ability to fend off agents. Perhaps his 'anomaly' isn't as advanced as Neo's, therefore he cant perform the stunts Neo can.

Something to think about: there may not be a matrix in a matrix. Smith entering 'the real world' could merely be a virus entering the brain of a person, this is physically possible. Neo's powers, I'm not sure about, perhaps the sentinels are connected to the matrix so they can find humans' ships more easily, thus Neo could detect them himself, and disable them via the matrix. How was he communicating through the matrix without being plugged in? I haven't a clue, but is another view to ponder while we await the next film.

 

liquid, almost EVERYTHING you said is right where i'm at in my thoughts.

about Neo stopping the sentinels if zion is really the real world:

someone on another forum said this basic theory (this is my own words though, plus i've added some stuff to it): smith can copy himself because neo and him (smith) exchanged parts of each other's coding. wouldn't it then make sense that neo can also copy himself? when neo is leaving the architect's tv room, is simply shows neo walking towards the door, then him flying out with flames following closely behind (why, i sitll don't know?) but could neo have (either unknowingly or consciencously (sp?)) left a copy of himself in the architect's room (which is basically the control room of the entire matrix). if he did, and since all the machines seem to be connected to the matrix one way or another, then the neo in zion and the copy of neo in the matrix "worked together" to shut down the sentinels

IMO, that's the best theory so far that i've heard if zion isn't another matrix..... though the matrix in a matrix thing still makes so much sense, even though it's very obvious (which is why many people don't like it)