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Small Form Factor New Raspberry Pi 5

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Gareth Halfacree, 28 Sep 2023.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yeah, basically every vendor ever has been asking the same question. So far, a firm "no comment."
     
  2. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

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    Hmm - I think an RP2040/RP1-based "Pico 2" would be very interesting.
     
  3. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    There are cheaper SBCs, and there are more powerful SBCs. But to my knowledge, there is no other SBC solution that offers everything the Raspberry Pi can: hardware & software support, wide range of add-on compatibility, highly capable and versatile general purpose compute, and relatively low cost. IMO the only other SBCs that come close to the Pi in terms of level of support are x86 SBCs. But that gets a bit murky when you look at bootloaders and the ability to install whatever OS you want, and completely fails on price.

    But no, supply chain issues have not helped. As far as I know though, that’s generally not an issue any more.

    Don’t forget the issues with brownouts on the very first iteration of the board. They assumed strict adherence to USB voltage standards across the industry, when in fact most USB power supplies… just… didn’t… do that. Whether it was resistive losses in poor-quality cables or poorly-designed power circuits sagging under load, the assumed minimum of 4.75v was not always delivered to the board via MicroUSB. Leading to brownouts of USB devices or even complete shutdown of the board.

    Admittedly that wasn’t technically the fault of the RPi itself, but it was certainly naïve hardware design. It could have maybe been avoided, but very early on the goals were tiny in comparison to where they are now. The original plan was to build 10,000 of them and selling every single unit would have been considered a success. Then the hype grew beyond any of their wildest expectations.
     
  4. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    I've caught up on all the official messaging now, and I can confirm that there's no "chiplet" involved: they're abusing the term to refer to shoving the low-speed functionality off to a separate chip. If that's a "chiplet architecture" then so is every motherboard that ever had a southbridge and/or northbridge...
     
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  5. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    Good god, I never thought I’d be suddenly overwhelmed with nostalgia for the era when motherboards still had northbridges and southbridges…

    Says the guy who has a period-accurate late 90s/early 2000s PC (complete with CRT monitor) and one of their first computers from 34 years ago sat on a shelfAnd not just “the same model which I bought later on down the line”, the same actual computer I got for Christmas in 1989…
     
  6. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Noice. I've still got the bits for my old Windows 98 machine, though no box to put 'em in: proper Intel Pentium 233MMX, 64MB of EDO RAM, Matrox Mystique (I think, been a while since I took stock) , 3Dfx Voodoo 4MB, Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold. I've even got a power supply adapter somewhere that takes ATX input and spits out AT. Just need a CF or similar for storage, IDE CD-ROM, and a case.
     
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  7. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    Oof, 3Dfx Voodoo, very nice - they’re harder to get hold of than hen’s teeth these days.

    I can’t remember the exact spec of my retro build, but I know the CPU is somewhere around 1GHz and it has a GeForce3 MX. I am indeed using an IDE-to-CF adapter, and it’s got working CDROM, DVD-RW, and floppy drives. More like a Win2000 machine than a Win98/95 or DOS machine, I’d say. At least for me anyway - I was one of those weirdos who actually ran Win2000 as a daily driver and played games on it. Largely because I had a dual CPU system at the time: two P3 800MHz chips overclocked to 966MHz on an Abit VP6 (never could quite break that 1GHz barrier, sadly). Damn, I wish I’d kept that PC, it was an absolute beast in its day… I even had a capture card so I could hook up my PlayStation to my monitor…
     
  8. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yeah, there's a reason I kept my P233MMX: it's literally the last Intel chip to give you full DOS compatibility. The Pentium Pro and later Pentium II changed enough that a small but non-zero subset of DOS stuff simply wouldn't work. Obviously if you're focusing on NT-based stuff, that's not a concern.
     
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  9. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    I largely missed the DOS era, it was never really my thing... There were still brilliant DOS games around when I started getting into "proper" PCs, but most of the time you could run them from within Windows. Or you'd reboot to a DOS prompt... or use a boot floppy... We didn't get a "proper" x86 PC until 1996, right when Win95 was all the rage - up until that point I was still using my Atari STe.

    These days I can just use the ao486 core on my MiSTer if I ever want "proper DOS".
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    I started off with a Spectrum, then a Commodore 64, then a 128. My dad had an Apricot XEN-i with MS-DOS compatibility mode, and then I got my first IBM-compatible: a Schneider Euro PC II. MS-DOS 3.30A, upgraded 1.44MB floppy, 20MB IBM-compatible sidecar, 9" amber CRT. Lovely beast, but not exactly a speed demon: an Intel 8088 clone running in the single-digit-MHz. I used that thing for way longer than you'd expect, 'cos we were skint, then we finally saved up enough for a second-hand 486 with Windows 95 and colour(!) monitor. That got used for years more, then we finally upgraded to Windows 98 on the P233MMX - the parts from which are in a box to my left.
     
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  11. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    Amber CRT, nice…

    Anyhoo, I’m gonna stop dragging us off topic now… :grin:
     
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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  13. Xlog

    Xlog Minimodder

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    So whats the bottom line here - are they going to release full datasheet/TRM eventually or is this will be same as with current braodcom stuff? From Uptons PR: "While we are looking at exposing more of the features of RP1, both in software and with further documentation, that’s going to be something you might see a little later on." does not fill me with confindence.
    At least most of the peripherals are license from Synopsys, so can get documentation from them.

    Visual block is quite interesting, triple video dac and all that.
     
  14. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    You're more likely to see a full(er) datasheet than with Broadcom, 'cos this ain't Broadcom - but it's not guaranteed. There's whispers of figuring out how to expose some of the unused/underused hardware in user space, but if it's not yet in the datasheet it probably won't appear until they've figured out how to do that (and if they can't figure out how to do that, it'll probably remain Top Secret.)

    That is, unless they do decide to sell the part alongside the RP2040, in which case they'd need a full datasheet or no bugger'd buy it.
    Fun fact: it is technically possible, though currently buggy as all hell, to spread your desktop across five displays on a Pi 5 with RP1: two HDMI (BCM2712), two DSI, one composite (all RP1).
     
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  15. Xlog

    Xlog Minimodder

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    Feels like theres a bit of bulls****** going around - most of what is released is already documented in rp2040 datasheet in more deph (most peripherals are based on same ip, stuff like PIO is completly missing). Are they saying that they spent 25M$ on custom asic and still dont know what documentation they can disclose or even have one? That should have been sorted in IP selection phase.
    And why tf releasing documentation is dependant on exposing it to userspace?

    Or they could pull off Broadcom2 and require NDA and an order of 10k before they give it to you.

    Could also connect couple more over USB, SPI.
     
  16. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Presumably because if they say RP1 has $WHIZZ_BANG_FEATURE_X, people are going to start demanding to use $WHIZZ_BANG_FEATURE_X - and if $WHIZZ_BANG_FEATURE_X turns out to be difficult/impossible to expose to userspace, said people are going to start kvetching.

    Whereas this way if they *do* get $WHIZZ_BANG_FEATURE_X working in userspace, they can unveil it as a lovely bonus that's ready-to-rock and bathe in the accolades.

    Note: this is all supposition. I have no insider knowledge on how the decision was reached as to what goes into the draft datasheet and what doesn't.
    And that, I reckon, supports my hypothesis: RPT's already confirmed in blog comments that the RP1 has an RP2040-like PIO block, and that said PIO block may be used to deliver some missing functionality (like SMI) or be exposed to userspace in the future - but it ain't in the datasheet yet.

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  17. MiNiMaL_FuSS

    MiNiMaL_FuSS ƬӇЄƦЄ ƁЄ ƇƠƜƧ ӇЄƦЄ.

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    I'm still using a pi3 (on librelec) as my main media streamer (mostly downloaded stuff from a usb3 HDD), but the pi3 can't play h.265 (only h.264). So I either need to move to a newer pi or some sort of android box.... thoughts?
     
  18. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    Depends on your requirements.

    If it's only ever going to be local media then a Pi will do fine. If you also want access to streaming services (Netflix, Prime Video, iPlayer, Disney+, etc) then get a Fire Stick.

    I generally wouldn't recommend the cheapo generic Android TV boxes that are splashed all over AliExpress and the like. There's no guarantee that you'll have access to app stores or streaming media services - even if you don't need those, there's absolutely no guarantee that malware hasn't made its way into the OS (and there is plenty of evidence of this happening).
     
  19. MiNiMaL_FuSS

    MiNiMaL_FuSS ƬӇЄƦЄ ƁЄ ƇƠƜƧ ӇЄƦЄ.

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    I use a fire stick for streaming service at the moment, nice and simple - but there's no usb slot for local media, hence the pi.
     

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