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Build Advice Building for some longevity

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by okenobi, 9 Jul 2010.

  1. okenobi

    okenobi What's a Dremel?

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    With the discussion on 32nm quad in mind: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=190596

    I'm still considering options for a new machine that will let me play ArmA II (amongst a ton of other things I'm dying to try!) and handle regular media/browsing duties, but also last a while.

    Given my current machine (a skt 939 dual core Athlon with 2gig of RAM) handles Win7 x64 and everything I need apart from gaming, I'm of the opinion that anything quad core is going to cope with my needs for quite some time. The only reason I'm thinking quad over dual, is for more demanding games in the future. I don't use anything else multi-threaded. It's literally gaming, ripping CDs, serving media and browsing.

    So...... i5-750 vs. i7-920. Everybody's favourite debate! But I want a twist on it, not just the usual.

    From what I've read here and elsewhere, the i5 is ample for my needs and still seems a fair bit cheaper than 1366. With the 32nm quad thread in mind - i5 with dual channel DDR3 would allow me to keep my RAM if I ever upgraded to 1155 or add another 4gig if I moved to 2011 with it's quad channel DDR3.

    1366 with it's triple channel RAM would likely mean I couldn't carry the RAM over if I decided to upgrade in the future. However, you have a 32nm hex upgrade and even without that surely a 1366 system for somebody like me without extreme needs is gonna last bloody ages??

    When I bought my XPS laptop nearly 4yrs ago, I spent £1500 because I wanted it to last. It has. Had I spent £500 it would've been no good for my needs a while back. I want to apply the same logic, within reason, to a new desktop build.

    Thoughts???
     
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2010
  2. roosauce

    roosauce Looking for xmas projects??

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    I went 1366 because it was always going to end up with something higher-end than the 1156 platform. Having a future upgrade path to a 6-core, 12-thread i7 is plenty for the forseeable future.

    That being said - if you're still on 939 then your needs aren't high-end. Have you considered AMD AM3 platform with one of their low-end quads? Very reasonable pricing for now, and you would have an upgrade path to their hex cores ...
     
  3. okenobi

    okenobi What's a Dremel?

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    My needs aren't high end because I don't currently play games. I miss that like crazy and I'm dying to try ArmA II and play CoH on my TV, maybe FSX and a whole bunch of other things. Gaming is the only thing right this second that warrants a new machine. Well, that and I don't have any room in my chassis to add another HDD and I'm running out of room again!

    I have considered AM3, but a quad Phenom isn't really any cheaper than an i5. In fact, depending on mobo choice, it can be more expensive. Also, I don't think the architecture has the longevity of either 1156 or 1366, which is the whole point of the question I'm asking.
     
  4. roosauce

    roosauce Looking for xmas projects??

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    1366 definitely has the faster parts available. 1156 quad versus hex-core AM3 is pretty debatable.

    What's your budget - if you can manage a 920 D0 stepping CPU on 1366 then that's going to do you well ...

    If you can't, then really 1156 or AM3 will be about the same power as far as top future upgrades go. Some people actually think that AMD might bring out even more capability within the AM3 socket, with the bulldozer 8-core chips being able to drop in.
     
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2010
  5. Delta Nine IT

    Delta Nine IT New to this but not to Modding!

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    I would suggest an AM3 Platform and make the most of AMD's Fusion. That being the ability to use any newer generation parts with todays Motherboard. I personally use the AMD 1090T Hex Core and i wont need anything more for as long as i can foresee as there is NO process which makes it sweat - be it gaming or rendering!

    Intel is a far more expensive build to complete given the cost of the high end CPU's and more noticeable the Motherboard! and if 1366 you have a 1/3rd more ram to buy. Yes Intel have the fastest CPU but AMD i think is the safer, more future proof option.

    AMD 1055T 6x2.8ghz
    4Gb DDR3
    MSI/GIGABYTE/ASUS Mobo
    Decent 700w PSU
    ATI 5850/70
    and your choise af hard disks, OS etc and you have a very very fast PC with good upgrade paths and will cost less than a grand (didnt get out my calculator) ish

    my 10p worth....
     
  6. okenobi

    okenobi What's a Dremel?

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    Just did a little pricing to get myself up to date:

    i5-750 £159
    GA-P55M-UD2 £88
    4gig XMS3 £87
    Total = £334

    i7-920 OEM £186
    GA-X58-UD3R £159
    6gig XMS3 £133
    Total = £478

    1366 may be better, but is it £150/50% better?? That's a crapload of money! It's the mobo that's killing it though. The chip isn't that much more expensive and the RAM's not ideal, but you could live with both of those if there was a £90 X58 mobo.

    As it is, I really don't think I can justify the extra. Will have a rethink about multicore AMD and cheaper 1156 solutions.....
     
  7. roosauce

    roosauce Looking for xmas projects??

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    Definitely check out AMD. For the 1156 - if you want to save money for now then take a look at the i3-530.

    I am on my phone but from memory this is dual core 4 thread, 32nm. It will overclock like stink and go toe to toe with 920s and 750s in just about any of todays games.
     
  8. memeroot

    memeroot aged and experianced

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    definately i5
     
  9. okenobi

    okenobi What's a Dremel?

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    Ok. Wanna explain why.....
     
  10. roosauce

    roosauce Looking for xmas projects??

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    Asus M4A785TD-M £70 [or Gigabyte GA-880GMA-UD2H (£83 with SATA 6G & USB 3)]
    4gig XMS3 £87 (just copying your listing)
    AMD Phenom II X6 Six Core 1055T £160
    = £317 or £330 with SATA 6G and USB3

    All types of awesome. You could also drop in a cheaper CPU for now if you wanted ... as it wouldn't hamstring games much.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jul 2010
  11. bagman

    bagman Minimodder

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    don't bother with amd the i5 is quite considerably better on all fronts and when over clocked no chance for amd

    and fusion is pointless for us as we are the high end of the market fusion is for people buying there pc's not for people who build them as it won't have enough power for to game on
     
  12. okenobi

    okenobi What's a Dremel?

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    That is cheap. But it's barely cheaper than i5. Hmmm....
     
  13. fingerbob69

    fingerbob69 Minimodder

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    Bit-tech May buyers guide:

    Gaming enthusiast i5-860+mobo+ram = £445
    Premium player i9-930+mobo+ram = £530

    That's 'just' £85 more for the current class leader which is a cpu that should last you the next 4/5 years no problem. And if you where willing to drop £1500 on a laptop 4 years ago why not that little bit extra on a cpu now?
     
  14. roosauce

    roosauce Looking for xmas projects??

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    I disagree wholeheartedly. Not that the i5 is bad at all, but the hex-core AMD part is more than enough for good frame rates in any game today and has more than enough grunt for the multi-threaded foreseeable future. The key objective in this thread is longevity - the AM3 socket is much more likely to allow a future part to drop in e.g. an 8-core bulldozer which will shred 1156 quads ... assuming that Intel is moving on from this socket.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jul 2010
  15. okenobi

    okenobi What's a Dremel?

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    I had £1500 then! :D I don't now. The principle was, I didn't mend spending a bit extra for greater longevity. If the difference was just £85, I'd probably stretch. But it's not, it's £150! I still have to find cash for a decent PSU, case, cooling, and most importantly - a decent GPU.

    The last time I built a PC (LGA 775 for a friend), there were two platforms and then you picked the amount of RAM and the CPU. These days, there's way more going on and the price gaps appear to be a lot bigger.
     
  16. roosauce

    roosauce Looking for xmas projects??

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    I would go so far as to say you could happily use an Athlon II X3 or X4 for now. There has been some research suggesting that this is all you need for games today.

    When you're ready and the current chips get old, pop in a 6 or 8 core.

    But then, if you can, I'd go 6-core right away ;)
     
    Last edited: 10 Jul 2010
  17. roosauce

    roosauce Looking for xmas projects??

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    okenobi - you will probably find that most people here upgrade their computer in bits rather than necessarily spend more up front to make it last longer. It's amoving feast, so I think that using a socket that will be supported for some time is the way forward for you.
     
  18. Action_Parsnip

    Action_Parsnip What's a Dremel?

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    My quick and dirty thoughts before i take a nap after finishing a 9 hour shift that started at 5:30 this morning.....

    Even 1366 is really at this stage a doomed platform. 32nm 6 cores in a non-extreme flavour are rumoured to be coming, but not certain (anybody know for sure? Im on old info). If you want to go for longevity I would wait until Intel and AMD's new chips come out. Get the best mobo you can that isn't an omg-wtf-l33t edition. You know what I mean very good but not madly over the top. Then put as much ram as you can into it. Seriously. Fill all the slots with some decent stuff, and put a HHD and not a SSD into it. SSDs are evolving really really fast, more so even than graphics cards from what I can tell. Nothing you can buy now will ever seem anything but terribly clunky, limited in capacity and gratuitously expensive in a years time. Wait 18 months, maybe even 2 years and come back to it, when they're more like commodity items and not special treats out of your surplus budget. Graphics cards follow this fast cycle but other system components do not have too by a long stretch. Im gonna hold onto my caviar black until 1gb SSDs are 100 quid. I can live with loading times, Im only a gamer too and i have no need to shift large files around.

    Stick a 850 watt psu in this system. Even if you will be nowhere near that wattage in your gaming needs and a 650 watt would be more than fine. As the psu ages (yes they do, and their output suffers) it wont be for many years before it would be soo low in output and with soo much ripple that it will damage components. It might very well outlive the current power connector specification.

    If I had a chance to build all new all over again, I would buy too much ram, a far too powerful psu, and whatever high-end gpu I would choose would be one with double the default frame buffer.

    If anything I would advise get the next high-end intel cpu in the slowest flavour with the same cache as the top-end, and a real quality mobo on that socket more or less as soon as it launches. Those who jumped on the i7 920 + 1366 mobo bandwagon at the outset really made the right bet. Taking this route theres also a cat in hell's chance you may have an upgrade path some time down the road. No such luck for p55 owners.
     
  19. Action_Parsnip

    Action_Parsnip What's a Dremel?

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    I certainly do. A new bit here an upgrade there. The problem is ive gone over things that I really shouldn't have needed too, crappy psu, cheapo 2x1gb ram, middle of the road cpu coolers, all now swapped out for something far more substantial. Live and learn eh!
     
  20. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Problem is nothing you pick will still be even bottem end in 4 years

    You compared i750 vs i930 as platform is why it's £150 dif

    And the 930 is alot faster for what it's worth

    Bit tech did 860'vs 930 and the did in price is small.

    Problem you have is no set budget

    If your budget is £600 then you won't get an i5 system

    If it's £800 you will get one

    If it's £1000 your in 930 area

    Below is a rough price guide to things you said you needed

    If you need psu case gpu and hard disks

    A good psu can be £100 case is fielders choice

    Antec 300 is around 30-40 pound

    Gpu 5770 is about £120 min and that's what everyone would recomend on this site

    1tb hd another £60
     

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