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Cooling C-Systems mini pump

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Gordy, 22 May 2004.

  1. overfloe

    overfloe What's a Dremel?

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  2. Gordy

    Gordy Evil Teddy

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  3. acidfire

    acidfire What's a Dremel?

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    now the one thing im curious about, the diagrams that they provide on their site, the rad is the last thing on the diagram before the water hits the res, i thought it was usually best to have the rad just before the blocks to pull the most heat from the water. I take it that either the pump doesnt generate that much heat or some just made a mistake or maybe iu've got the wrong idea, can someone straighten me out?
     
  4. 8-BALL

    8-BALL Theory would dictate.....

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    Given that a pump will add 0.05deg to the water temp at most, unless you're using some beast of a central heating circulation pump, it ain't gonna make much differrence to how the rad dumps heat.

    What will however, is minimising restrictions due to long lengths of curved tubing resulting from trying to connect components in a "recommended manner", by simply connecting components in the most logical fashion based on their position in your case. This should increase the flow rate throughout the system, improving the efficiency of heat transfer from the blocks into the water and from the water into the rad. Bare in mind, this won't be a huge change, but it is likely to have a greater effect on cpu temp than placing the rad after the pump.

    But to answer your question more directly, this pump produces VERY little heat.

    8-ball
     
  5. Tulatin

    Tulatin The Froggy Poster

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    very interesting point dude, and how do you know so much? I'm assuming that this sort of thing is your area?
     
  6. 8-BALL

    8-BALL Theory would dictate.....

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    Like most areas I'm interested in, I find it very easy to grasp new scientific concepts, and have a very scientific logical mind. I just seem to understand the principles straight off and can visualise what's happening in my head. Equally, I don't like buying anything without thorough research, and I've done a LOT of research into various cooling techniques and the theories behind them.

    Probably spend too much time on the procooling forums tbh.

    Looking forward to the summer when I'm setting up a workship of sorts with various cnc equipment, so I can put some of my ideas to practive.

    8-ball
     
  7. Tulatin

    Tulatin The Froggy Poster

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    yeah, i've seen you there too. What's your take on the European W/C style? (1/4 tubing)
     
  8. 8-BALL

    8-BALL Theory would dictate.....

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    This is a "discussion" I don't really want to get into.

    If this is prompted by recent discussions at procooling, then you will have to be patient like everybody else and wait for the results.

    I can give you opinions, but that is all they are without further testing.

    8-ball
     
  9. Tulatin

    Tulatin The Froggy Poster

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    haven't been to pro in a while, and i would love to hear your take on it dude.
     
  10. 8-BALL

    8-BALL Theory would dictate.....

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    my "take" on things.

    If you lok at the graph of deltaT vs flow rate at the bottom of this page, you can see that for ALL blocks, performance increases with flow rate. This is not a discussion, this is FACT.

    However, these data points form curves, and these are curves which begin to flatten out as flow rate is increased. Lets call this point, for arguments sake, FP for flattening point. This is hard to define as it doesn't really get flat, but consider it the point where more flow rate doesn't do much.

    Ok, as a general rule, more restrictive blocks have an FP at lower flow rates.

    So lets consider two scenarios.

    Firstly, a "german low flow" block, which will more than likely be very restrictive and will most probably have an FP at relatively low flow rates.

    Even with narrow bore tubing, the highly restrictive block will still make up the majority of the flow restriction in the loop. Agreed?

    Therefore, changing to 1/2" tubing will not lower the overall resistance of the loop by much, since the block may be already accounting for ~70% of the restriction. Thus changing the tubing is only affecting about 5% of the restriction of the loop (don't forget the radiator). So you will only get a tiny bit more pressure drop across the block.

    Now, since it is a restrictive block, it will have a steep curve of pressure drop vs flow. So a little bit more pressure drop won't give you much more flow, and since the FP is at low flow rates, then a little bit more flow will make minimal difference to the C/W of the block. Make sense.

    Now consider a low restriction "US" style block, but still connected up with low bore tubing.

    This block will more than likely have an FP at higher flow rates, and the pressure drop vs flow curve won't be as steep either.

    Equally, because, the block, and most likely the rad as well, are less restrictive, the tubing now makes up a much greater portion of the total system resistance to flow.

    So now, changing the tubing to 1/2" will have a much greater effect on the overall resistance to flow, so the relative change in pressure drop across the block will be greater and so the relative increase in flow rates through the loop will also be greater. And since the FP of this block is at higher flow rates, then we have more to gain by increasing flow rates.

    In other words, if you have a restrictive block designed to work well at lower flow rates, then you don't need anything bigger than 8mmID or whatever it is they use.

    However, I also believe that very high restriction low flow blocks are also limiting their potential performance simply by limiting the mass of water travelling through the block.

    Note that numbers in this "take" are fictional and only used as examples and any conclusions drawn are opinions.

    8-ball
     
  11. Tulatin

    Tulatin The Froggy Poster

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    so these kits work the way they do because every other component has been designed to work with the highly resrictive block, and due to this, the kit is able to dissipate the heat, and keep liqiud flowing well - thus keeping temps down. However, when you boost flow, and lower restriction, you allow more water to pass through, and cool the kit, thus resulting in lower temps. Good point. Now if i can only adapt my hydrocool to use 3/8 ID tubing throughout, due to the swifty blocks i use...
     
  12. Chobbler

    Chobbler Running with a Spoon

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    all i wanna know is where when and gimmie gimmie gimmie gimmie

    i am sick of the current pump, its sooo large...i will be placing it on the for sale forum at a reduced price once i get some of these little thingys!
     
  13. dr_crazy

    dr_crazy What's a Dremel?

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    omg, those things look damn good! And if i work my ass off over the summer, i might be able to buy one!!!!

    But im still scared that a clumsy git like myself could still somehow mess it all up and spray watter all over my computer (a costly mistake, one i couldn't really afford considering i have no money, being the classic student and all)
     
  14. Prophet

    Prophet Minimodder

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    Yea, im planning on working all summer to put a water cooling system into my a64 lian system, o well, still a bit shifty about the whole idea, but with good quality components and some decent precautions all should be well eh?!?!

    Proph.
     
  15. M_D_K

    M_D_K Minimodder

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    Im sure it will be fine just do some reasearch and play around with the kit out side your case when your happy its working good slap it in and your sorted.

    morgan.
     
  16. Morphine

    Morphine weeee!

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    I'm only a 17 year old high school student and I manage to afford this costly hobby. A tip for making sure that your system will never leak unless the pump blows up or someone attacks it with a knife is this: Buy your system with 1/2" barbs on the blocks, rad, and pump. Get some 3/8" tygon tubing. Cut your tubing to the required lengths, and then submerge the ends that will go over the 1/2" barbs in boiling water. The water will cause the tubing to soften and expand and will let 3/8" tubing fit over 1/2" barbs. When the tbing cools and shrinks, it will form itself over the barbs and create one of the strongest seals known throughout the universe. It took two people to pull a test piece of tubing off of my danger den RBX. I had to hold onto the block while my friend leaned and put all of his weight on the tubing and tried to pull it off.
     
  17. dr_crazy

    dr_crazy What's a Dremel?

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    hehehe, sounds impressive. *notes down for reference when he gets water cooling*

    My parents are giving up their expensives tastes to put me and my bro through uni, paying for my tuition fees, accomodation and a small budget to live off so my student loan is currently in a high interest tax-free isa. Im guessing i could dip into the interest (plus it means im not gonna be in debt for years after uni, though i will be in debt to my parents for their uttmost generosity).
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    That's what I did for Metaversa. :thumb: And as most 1/2" barbs are, in actual fact, 3/8" ID anyway, you don't suffer any restriction!
     
  19. 8-BALL

    8-BALL Theory would dictate.....

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    You will still suffer some additional restriction using 3/8 instead of 1/2"id tubing, depending on the length of tubing used, though it won't be that much.

    8-ball
     
  20. Prophet

    Prophet Minimodder

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    Genius idea. O well, will dip into the water cooling at the end of th summer i guess :)

    Proph.
     
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