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Modding My new server questions

Discussion in 'Modding' started by scifi3018, 2 Jun 2006.

  1. scifi3018

    scifi3018 Minimodder

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    I am making a new server to run linux, and be a server/firewall/wahtever else i want to mess around with.

    Currenty it has a P2, 2nics, and 1 HDD (with room for another) and PSU

    I found a P3 in my moms old computer, which i decide to canibalize (+128 RAM).
    The PSU's are the same size, so i will test to see which is quieter.

    The P3 is passivley cooled, while the P2 has a HSF unit. Why is this? Shouldnt the P3 run hotter (faster)?

    Also, can i just use the P3 in the P2 slot, i havent found a definate answer inline, but they do use the same slot. Im jus tnot sure if the mobo would be compatible. If anyone could clear this up, it would be great.

    Also, i found a 3rd nic, and i could get a 4th nic (filling all the PCI slots). Is there any advantage to this? I want to use this box to mess around with and learn webserving, firewalling, etc.

    What is a good number of Nics to use for versatility. 1, 2, 3, 4?

    Also, you might notice the lack of vid card. I dont plan on using a vid card for this, as i dont have any low profile cards on hand. Is there a problem with this, i obvioulsy would use a vid card for setup, but aftre that i should be able to remote access it right? (im planning on using linux)
    If i remote access it, will i have a gui or not?

    Any help for any of these questions is great. And this is a learning project, so thats why i have so many unanswered questions.
     
    Last edited: 2 Jun 2006
  2. scifi3018

    scifi3018 Minimodder

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    So last night i made some sketchups, and i was surprised at the learning curve. Sketchup is like autocad as far as i can tell, but easier to draw 3D. I never learned 3D in autocad unfortunatley, but what little times i tried it, it was mind boggling hard. I also never figured out surfaces in autocad, but thats neither here-nor there.

    So i have the layout setup as far as i can tell.
    http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3301/top1yw.jpg
    http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/5364/case2vd.jpg
    http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8369/bottom4xv.jpg

    Those edges are really jittery... whatever
    On the front of the case, im going to reroute the however many LAN prots i decide to use to the front, as shown by the boxes.

    The HDDs 1 for now, but room for 2, will be mounted from the top of the case. The top of the case will hinge to the bottom at the lond edge by the HDDs.

    I have yet to figure out how to make the case close, im thinking either bolt the sucker together, or use a locking mechaism... i dont intend on opening it much.

    Also, i know that they arnt in the drawing, but there will be a small case fan or two, one by the HDDs at the front, and the other i dunno yet. Im not sure how much heat a P3 gives off, although i dont know whether im using a P3 or a P2, cause no onw has resopned to my first post... are they interchagable?

    Also, i know that the pictures arnt perfect, i rounded to 1/8" so the PCI and older slots are spaced a little far apart in the pics, so thats why the AGP slot is under the P3/2.

    Any recomendations, comments are more then welcome, i expect to finish the plans, and start within a week.

    BTW the dimensions of the case are 3.5" high, 17" wide, and 8" deep. Can anyone uess what its for?
     
    Last edited: 5 Jun 2006
  3. Philipp

    Philipp What's a Dremel?

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    I would serparate the firewall from the rest as it is more secure (or is safe the proper word in this situation?)
    If you only want to use one machine consider chroot (Linux) or jails (*BSD).

    That's sufficent to begin. :)

    That depends on the core they use. Ask the Intel-website for more information.

    What mainboard is it? Do you have a handbook for it? Have searched the net?
    I would just try if the PIII works with your mainboard (I do not suppose it to be blown up... :eyebrow: ). Before you do that check some BIOS-settings like "Core-voltage: AUTO" (that's rather important if they don't have the same core-voltage, if not you could damage your system :duh: ). It should run, but possibly not full speed... :eek:

    That depends on what you want to do with your machine. If you want to do hardcore-firewalling then the more NICs you have the better it is. :)
    Do you plan on using a RAID-controller? In this case, you should have one PCI slot for spare

    One NIC is good for web-servers/FTP/Samba/... With two NICs you can build a (simple) firewall, three and more are only usefull if you want to do hardcore-firewalling for several network-areas... :D

    No, there is no problem with using no graphics card. :) Yes, you can remote access your machine if you enable ssh-support. :) You could also use a serial connection as it is safer (but also slower due to the speed of the serial port...) and it also allows you to follow the boot-messages. :)
    You won't have a GUI until you install X and a window-manager in combination with VNC. If you don't want CLI (Command line interface) only, you could also install webmin. It allows you to access your machine over a web-based frontend :)

    I hope I could help you a little bit :) A last note though: You should consider of using one of the 4 big BSDs ([Free|Net|Open|Dragonfly]BSD). They are a little bit different from Linux but that doesn't matter. :) If you decide to use BSD, you should absoltuley try out FreeBSD. I use it myself on several machines and it is really a great operating system (especially for servers/firewalls but also for desktops :D). I'm currently building a firewall with it (I'll post a worklog in the next days ;)).

    To answer some of your questions, you should ask Google (or something similar like Ask.com, read the documentation of your operating system, mailing lists and their archives,...

    HTH,
    Philipp

    P.S.: The case looks good, although I would not route the NIC-ports to the front...
     
  4. Glider

    Glider /dev/null

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    WRONG, if you want webservers (regardless of the kind [HTTP/FTP/...]) you really need 3 nic's. 1 external (RED in IPCop), 1 LAN (GREEN) and 1 DMZ (ORANGE)
    Only if your motherboard supports this... I'd go SSH, much easier. And a graphic card is required for the pc to boot, wetter onboard or a pci/AGP kind
    And for god's sake, stay away from webmin... SSH and CLI is all you need...(stay away from X on servers...) IPCop uses a webinterface for administration from the LAN interface, but that is properly configured and secure... and wont give you the headaches webmin gives you.

    Let's not re-invent the hot water shall we?

    scifi3018, I would ask some more concrete questions... then you'll get more and better responses... I am willing to help you out, but ask for more specific things plz
     
  5. Brooxy

    Brooxy Loser of the Game

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    This might be a really dim question, but, you have a P3 and a P2, and yet your saying about using the P3 chip in the p2 mobo....

    Why not use the P3 equipment, or did i miss something?
     
  6. mattthegamer463

    mattthegamer463 What's a Dremel?

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    I don't know much about the software side of a server, but I do have a golden rule when it comes to PCs. Keep old processors with their original motherboards whenever possible. I have only ever had one processor work flawlessly in a non-factory motherboard. They are very difficult to swap around. I even had two exact same P2s that would not boot when I switched it with the original one. Fussy cannot describe them. Of couse, I was dealing with IBMs, Dells, and Compaqs, so theres part of the problem I assume.
     
  7. kbates666

    kbates666 What's a Dremel?

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    I dont know I have had quiet a few processors work with other motherboards but all those were K5's and K6's, so dont ask me about intel crap.
     
  8. mattthegamer463

    mattthegamer463 What's a Dremel?

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    The K6's I have work quite well in almost any motherboard I put them in, and they even change themselves down to the clock settings set on the board with no problems. Intel is very fussy though, as far as I've dealed with.
     
  9. scifi3018

    scifi3018 Minimodder

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    As for the reason i want to use the P3 in the P2 mother board, is that the P2 mobo is 2" smaller. And i could easilly change the plans to use it, but i see no reason to make the machine bigger if it boots. I know nothing about either mobo, as one is a weird HP POS with a hole crap-load of places where there should be, but HP didnt want...
    The other (P2) mobo i got from a freind for free, so i didnt ask any questions.

    I wouldnt really worry about the procs not working, cause my frined who gave me the P2 gear, just grabbed them from a box and tried it, and it post'ed.

    As for the mutiple things i want to do with it, i dont plan on using this for more than one thing at a time. Basically, set up a webserver, try it out... understand it...
    Ok, done. Set up a firewall, try it out... understand it...
    Ok, something new, and so on.

    I just want to understand how stuff works, and how to make them. So after i mess around for a while, i will proablly make this a perm. something, then make a new box for messing around, or make a new box for a specific reason.

    Is there any reason not to route the Nic ports to the front of the case?
    I was going to reveal this later, but this is going into the rack that i will be building at the same time, and the hub i have has all front mounted ports... but it has some interesting connectors on the back that i might could utilize?
    A 15 pin serial connector. And it looks like 2 50ish pin SCSI connectors, one make, one femal... I dunno why this would have SCSI, and i bet its not acually SCSI...

    Aight... heres some pics, they might help. I hope the formus resize pics automatically, cause i dont have time to resize them all now.

    P3 on top, P2 beneath it, both nekid.
    http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7351/dscn30148vj.jpg

    3 NICs, incase anyone acually cares.
    http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6374/dscn30139nc.jpg

    Weird 15pin port on teh back of the hub
    http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4307/dscn30072je.jpg

    Weird SCSI connector on the back of the hub
    http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9632/dscn30069cz.jpg

    P2 mobo, Winbound... thats all i know about it
    http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3897/dscn30112sp.jpg

    P3 mobo, crappy HP mobo, and theres all sorts of blank spots...
    http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1906/dscn30124en.jpg


    So the forums resize all the pics (for me at least). Why is there always a probelm with people demanding re-sized pics...
    So anyways, click on the pics for their full-sized glory.

    If anyone wants to d osome research on the mobos, you know know as much as i do, and seeing as i have a 16+ hr day tomorow, im going to sleep.

    Peace
    Sssssssssscifi

    [Edit 2x]
    Also, anyone know how easy/hard it is to make your own rails for a server rack? I found the specs for it, but if has ever built their own, a word of advice would be great.

    [edit 3x]
    I found Gumbatron's Project log, and asked him some questions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 3 Jun 2006
  10. GiGo

    GiGo was once a nerd.....

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    Please resize the pics, a little large, the reason you should get them resized is so the page doesnt take as long to load and the layout of the thread on smaller resolutions will fit proberly.

    As for the processors, use anyone you want, I've got loads of slot 1, I've got fanless and normal HSFs. The only warning i'll give you is make sure you monitor the tempurature of it, a case layout helps with the cooling, ie fan flow over a processor would allow it to cool quicker (the idea behind passivaly cooled processors).

    Designs look good, keep up the good work,.

    Regards
    GiGo
     
  11. scifi3018

    scifi3018 Minimodder

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    Ill resize on sunday, cuase im off to work.
    Thanks for the assurance tha thte P3 will work, i tried to convince my boss to give my an old P4 machine lying around the office, but no such luck.

    Whats the best size for the pics? Im sure its stated somewhere, so if someone could quote that to make me look the fewl... great stuff.

    --> WORK
     
  12. Glider

    Glider /dev/null

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    Found under the rules from the Project Logs ...
     
  13. Philipp

    Philipp What's a Dremel?

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    My father runs a webserver with only one NIC in the computer and it works. ;) You may be right if you want to do implement DMZ and so forth on one machine...

    I don't like web-interfaces for such applications (I don't use webmin for the same reason). I don't know if IPcop supports CLI only, but I will stick stick with FreeBSD and pf/ipfw/... because I know the system :)

    Greetings,
    Philipp

    Edit: Stay away from Realtek-NICs, they will slow down your system. :duh: Buy some cheap 3Com or Intel NICs off of eBay - it will be better for performance :)
     
  14. vortex 69

    vortex 69 What's a Dremel?

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    the P2 board is an Epox EP61 BXA-m, and two of the capacitors are almost blown (if not blown already), that makes it a bad choice for long time use (since it will probably die after some use)

    the P3 is an Asus P2B-VT

    at least now you can dig up more info about the boards :p
     
  15. Glider

    Glider /dev/null

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    Let's not mix up things here shall we? Firewall/NAS/Proxyserver: 2nic's, 3 if you have a DMZ... Webserver: 1 nic, towards the Firewall's DMZ...

    The current version of IPCop gives a difficult yet doable method of CLI, next will be fully configurable through CLI, and that version isn't that far from publication. But in IPCop the webinterface is built securely (unlike webmin), and it's really easy to use...
     
  16. hitman012

    hitman012 Minimodder

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    Because they're about 1.2 megabytes each. The forum doesn't actually resize them - it just shrinks the original and displays that. Resize properly or just link in future, please.
     
  17. Splynncryth

    Splynncryth 0x665E3FF6,0x46CC,...

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    that 'weid 15 pin port' looks like an AUI port. I would be wary of this piece of gear on the LAN side as it is probally 10 Mbs. As for the HD D sub port, I don't know. Some model numbers for the network gear might turn up some information.

    I'll second the comments made on those mobos. The Epox is definatly about ready to let go. They are easy enough to replace if you are handy with a soldering iron and can find the right capaciturs (low ESR types). But Asus has maintained a rock solid reputation for years.

    As for transplanting CPUs, it is not a big deal with two OEMs like Epox and Asus. The epox is a 440bx chipset, IIRC, it supports a P3 slot 1 CPU just fine. You may get a CPU fault beep code if there BIOS des not have a microcode update for the CPU, but that may be dealt with in an update. If not, and you really want to use the Epox, you may be able to grab the microcode updates from the Asus board and put them on the Epox. The Asus board appears to have an Award BIOS, I have seen the tools online to work with their images, but I don't have the URL handy. I don't know what is on the Epox, but the same site may have tools for it once I dig up that link.
     
  18. mottl3y

    mottl3y What's a Dremel?

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  19. scifi3018

    scifi3018 Minimodder

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    So, according to your recommendations, i will be using the (crappy imo) P3 board from my (crappy imo) HP.
    So i redesigned the interior.
    The Pros:
    HDD clearance is better, with 2 drives mounted to the ceiling instead of on top of each other, there’s better clearance between the HDD and other components.
    I can use all the PCI slots (before some were blocked by HDDs)

    Cons:
    1.5" longer (big deal, i know)
    for some reason i generally dislike this mobo... i dont know why...

    So heres the new layout: (check out the compliance of forum rules this time :lol: )
    [​IMG]

    I haven’t decided whether the PSU will be on the right or left side of the case yet, and it doesn’t really matter.

    I also need to redesign the case, because I realized that a hinged case is kinda stupid in a rack. So I need to rethink that, I also was thinking of how to make the rack mounts, and I will probably make the face out of one sheet of metal and attach that to the case, and the rack.

    I will work on a new case tomorrow after pressure washing the house.. and other misc house work that I will inevitably have to do. :sigh:
     
  20. scifi3018

    scifi3018 Minimodder

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    Yea, so with getting the house ready to sell (again)... i have had a full schedule with that and summer class (stupid math credits).
    So obviously i havent made much more progess yet...
    I have somewhat desinged a rack for all my gear to go in, but i stil lhave to figure out how to fab that up...
    IE: weld it (learn how to weld, find a welding machine, weld...) or build it from wood or something

    If anyone has any suggestions on the best way to make a rack (from scratch) i am open to suggestion. I plan on using angle iron for the rack,and drilling holes and threading...

    I have decided that aluminum is goind to be more pain than its worth, so im going to make the server case out of lexan (polycarbonate). Im thinking of buying some off ebay, because the prices seem reasonable.

    If i do get some lexan off ebay, some of the auctions are from a guy who lives in the same town as my brother, so i mgiht arrange for my bro to pick it up, and then get it from my brother in Aug when i travel north. If so, expect a long(er) delay in any updates.
     

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