I used to think like that. Give it a few more years, you might not be so willing Honestly I think my main problem at the moment is too many problems. I can stand working 12-16 hours a day and living on very little sleep, but not when I'm being bombarded with medium to critical issues all day, every day for weeks at a time. It takes so much out of you being busy constantly trying to solve problems rather than just normal work. Nothing has gone smoothly for me in recent weeks, and it's really taking its toll.
That's all well and good for some, but then if you're putting in the bare minimum I don't think it's fair to expect any more than the bare minimum when it comes time for bonus, promotions and pay rises. Standing out is the only way to move onwards and upwards, and usually standing out means putting in the hours. I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just different strokes for different folks. IMO a company needs individuals with the work-to-rule stance just as much as the hardcore workaholics and everyone in between. There's a time and a place too - I worked exceptionally hard for long hours throughout my 20s and am now rewarded at 31 with a well paying permanent job where I self-manage and I'm able to work from home with flexible hours the vast majority of the time. If I had stuck with the 9-5 rule, I'd be almost certainly still be still stuck with said 9-5.
My attitude is that I don't mind putting in the extra effort when we're under the cosh, and staying on if the brown stuff hits the air moving device isn't a problem. I have a problem when working extra hours starts to become expected, or required, every single working day of every single working week. That's when I start talking about contracted hours and work/life balance and such. On the other hand sometimes I'll voluntarily put in extra time; for example if I suddenly work out the solution to a problem that's been bugging me for a while I'll fire up my laptop and try it, or when I really get into a flow I'll stay on and finish the code I'm writing.
Again though, it depends on the pay and the perks. I'm paid well, so I'm expected and I also expect to stay late. It's part and parcel.
Of course I appreciate that everybody has different jobs and different situations. However, I would say that it may be a bit wrong to assume those that do work-to-rule are only giving the bare minimum. Maybe they are very organised and productive in their allotted hours that overtime is not a requirement.
In my experience (IT), contractors are definitely there to use and abuse whereas there's more of a consideration for work/life with permanent employees. Fair enough though IMO, since contractors tend to pull in a fair chunk more than the permanent equivalent, and cost the company a fair bit more. I never said that was the case, what I did say "usually standing out means putting in the hours". Getting the job done is one thing, and if that happens all within business hours then that's great. Inevitably there will be a scenario arise whereby it's not possible to get the job done in business hours though, and dropping it in the lurch and citing contracted hours as the reason is a sure fire way to stand out in the wrong way. I'm not saying that's right, but it is what it is.
Every company has the kind of people who show up at work at 9 (show up, not starting work as they need breakfast and a *** break first) and leave at 5 sharp, call in sick on monday mornings (due to hangovers), constantly beg for time off due to their brats needs and have a grandmother that dies 5 times a year. How do they do it? Let you do their work. How do they get away with it? No idea. Those people do provide one big advantage for normal employees though, they let you snap up every bonus and privilege available.
I think contractors are a different situation. Usually they're brought in at short notice to Get The Job Done, and not getting the job done risks continuation of that contract (and in some cases future contracts). Though I could well be talking out of my fat arse here, as I've never worked on contract.
IME in "IT" (software dev) it is definitely the case First - it's a shame that you had to fight for training and it says a lot about your employer (either they don't get it or don't care, both equate to no long term future for you there). Second, as someone who does what you do - just knock up some code and whack it up on github/whatever and include it in your CV. As someone who makes plenty of decisions regarding technical hires/no-hires, I generally don't give a **** about .NET or whatever certificates, I just want to see what you can do. IME, anyone who publishes code (good or bad, in fact) is already a cut above the rest. Any old joe can go to a intro to whatever course - but with me and with a lot of others like me, I'll pay almost no attention to certificates unless it's something highly bespoke (like the high end cisco networking certs, for example) as it is generally not a significant factor in whether the hire turns out to be good or bad
^ this man speaketh the truth. Similarly, as someone who is hiring left right and centre (always contractors), proof in the pudding is all that matters. I don't give a crap what courses they've been on. Some of the most qualified contractors I've had have been the absolute worst. Saying "I can do this kind of work" by showing me is far more interesting and attractive, than a few pieces of paper which "technically" prove you can do it.
Quite. Also, BLC - I obviously don't know the job market in Cardiff but I'd like to think you could add £10k to your salary by moving on, and hopefully even more than that. A few of my mates back in Wolverhampton are earning £35k for basic front end javascript/html/css work - you are much more skilled than that IMO - so there must be better paid stuff out there for you in Cardiff. Surely.
I think it's really hard to think about moving on when you genuinely really like your employer, and your job, and your perks. My salary might be slightly on the lower end for the job that I do, but, everything else about my job is pretty good. I can work from where ever I want, I can go where I want to go, as long as I'm looking after all my clients I am pretty much my own boss, I do have a boss - he's only ever referred to himself as my colleague, and I like that. I'm just racking up experience still I think. I got 5 years under my belt now, of good, decent experience of working in SME support and consultation, I support everything under the sun and I have a few microsoft certs under my belt and proven experience. Hopefully should set me up alright for my rapidly approaching 30's.
^ There is a huge amount to be said for striking a happy balance, and nothing wrong with staying put in that situation. If it aint broke...
Of course. I wish I could think like that, sometimes. But as I don't have kids, my focus is my career and my marriage. I couldn't settle with something because I was comfortable. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but for me, I couldn't sit by knowing I could be doing so much better for so much more.
Neither could I, but there's definitely a place for people who want to just do their thing 9-5, competently, and go home to do whatever else they like doing. Case in point, precisely 1 hour and 40 mins ago I interviewed a chap for a front-end developer role in a cafe just off Oxford Street here in London. I straight up told him, frankly, the work is not massively exciting and may be repetitive and you may consider it way beneath you. The reply was "that's fine, I've plenty of interests outside of work, as long as it pays the bills and I have a nice monitor setup to work with". I didn't have the salary details on hand, to which he replied "honestly, I need about £30k to cover my costs and be happy" - I was genuinely expecting him to ask for mid 40s or so (and I'd have paid it, too! As it happens I'm gonna offer him a decent amount more than 30). Contrast that with fresh CS grads who I've encountered for the same types of jobs asking for £20k more than the chap mentioned above as their first ever salary and are all but asking me how soon they can be running the company. Also some people just don't give much of a **** about money or having much of it. My girlfriend grew up in a 'poor' family who struggled at times to make ends meet, so has never had money and has next to zero interest in it because of that (she says!). She does her job (midwife), gets paid, wants for almost nothing, wastes none of it, saves what she can and doesn't really ever give it any thought. *shrug* Spoiler I'm not really sure of the point of my post other than: I am not like either of the above, but I totally 'get' those who are. Spoiler end of ramble!
Cheers all. I've already decided that I do not have a long-term future with this company. We don't really have in-house developers, most of the day-to-day coding is handed off to a long-term contractor we brought in. That's not about to change, and I wouldn't get a job with the contracted company unless I was extremely skilled, or a graduate living in Chennai or Mumbai. I took the current role because - besides being a £3,800 pay rise! - it was a chance to get some "proper" "developer" experience under my belt and software development is something I've always been interested in. Right now I'm in a comfort zone and I damn well know it. I've got relatively good pay (compared to what I've had for the last few years); an excellent benefits package; generous holiday allowance & sick leave; a fairly safe pension (I won't say who I work for, but trust me they aren't going anywhere); and relative job security. Recognising that I'm in a comfort zone doesn't make it any easier to get out of it though, and the last point is particularly salient - if I get made redundant then I will be *very* well compensated. In fact if I was offered voluntary redundancy I'd be biting their hand off to accept it - it isn't often offered because of the generous terms, hence I'll always have some kind of job here for the foreseeable future. The main worry for me is that my skill set is highly specialised; although it involves a lot of "development", it's mostly either T-SQL or VBA. SQL is an easily marketable skill, but VBA only really has relevance in the context of MS Office. Lots of big organisations still use Office and rely heavily on VBA, but one of my main concerns working here is how hamstrung I am when it comes to technology. We can't get a standards-compliant web-browser installed on our machines even though my team is working on an internal web site which is going to be viewed on iPads; we only have IE6-IE8 available on our machines and they're all garbage when it comes to accurate page rendering. If I want to test out a SQL procedure on a dummy data set then I have to jump through all sorts of hoops which I probably shouldn't jump through (and might even get me a serious disciplinary) in order to fire up an SQL Server sandbox instance on my laptop because provisioning servers - even virtual ones - is so damn expensive. For that matter, I also had to fight tooth and nail to get a laptop capable of actually doing any real work and a monitor that I didn't need a magnifying glass for; I had to go as far as measuring the percentage difference between the number of pixels on a 1280*1024 and a 1920*1080 display in order to justify the expenditure. All this happens because I work for a very large enterprise - we're about as "enterprise" as it gets - and that means we're very risk-averse. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I don't want to end up jumping to another large company with a heavy dependence on VBA & SQL only to find myself in a similar position with potentially none of the benefits I had before. Anyway, I'm the one rambling now! I've already started looking at roles elsewhere; I've already seen a few expired adverts looking for roles very similar to mine and paying £5 to £10k more than what I'm earning now. The trick is just getting off my arse and doing something . The tip about publishing stuff on GitHub or similar is a good call, I hadn't thought of that. There's a few little utility programs I've written for myself which would be excellent candidates to re-write as a "proper" VB.NET application.
I work all over the country on IT projects, and I actually do the work, not PM or "architect" it... Not going to say how much I earn but I live by the staying ahead of your age in salary as my goal.. And I'm hitting that target and I am 35. Some of this IT job pay variance comes down to flexibility, will you be a slave to the company you work for.. If you will, they will love you for it... I guess I am a bit of a slave... But I like my job so everyone's a winner... If you sit on a helpdesk all day you are in a way competing against offshore resources and it will be harder to move forward. We do live in a global village now though and I think the glory days for mega bucks in IT are behind us.
I honestly believe contracting is the future of employment. In London, anyhow. I work in a bank and 40% of it's staff are contractors. I think companies prefer this now.
I can see the attraction for employers. There's no pesky HR stuff like holiday, sick pay, disciplinaries, targets, reviews, etc... You're being paid to do a specific job, so as long you do that job you'll be cool. Don't do the job, contract isn't renewed; don't turn up for work, don't get paid; etc...
