You embarrass and degrade yourself with that ill thought-out sentiment. Let alone assuming to speak on behalf of an entire population subset, if you do indeed share the view of that whole specific global demographic then you've just personally set them back many, many steps by repping as such and I would hope beyond hope that you are alone in your opinion. This also in stark contrast to (at least how I first perceived) your previous post, but which after re-reading I now think means either I missed some subtle hate in that first one or there are two people posting on your account. Or the brave pills have kicked in as they often do when keyboard, mouse and soapboxes align. I'm not wholly sure that since the 1790s in the US, Queen Elizabeth II was pivotal in determining the way your presidents and other elected rulers handled any oppression you may have felt subject to. You "finally have a chance" to do what yourselves? You don't seem to have done much so far and I wasn't aware the late Queen was holding you back as "the single largest force" before the US govt.. Do share anything to the contrary. Funny that you think this is the watershed moment right now, not the deaths of any previous UK monarchs in 200 years (who may or may not have similarly represented the same "force" to which you refer), at which various points you apparently did the square root of FA but have instead waited until now to comment - and of course, party. Brilliant. Washed our hands after independence, pal. Had other things to be getting on with, like a couple of global conflicts (against oppression) that by the way, you were late to the party on. Both times. I'd be glad to hear your personal selfless World War ancestry contributions versus oppression. On the basis I haven't seen you trolling much here before, I assume this isn't that which only means you've just let yourself down immensely - and at the expense of someone else, which matters more coming from someone who's so vocal about respect in this very forum. It's one thing to debate the relevance of the monarchy in current society, but quite another to revel in any person's death as a reason to party. Show some fkg respect.
I’m not a royalist but, in recent years, I found myself liking the stability the Queen represented and even listened her traditional Christmas speeches. Godspeed, your highness, Godspeed.
Are you aware of all the policies enacted in her name and with her approval in Canada? The forced sterilization, the stolen children, the parochial schools? All this after WWII? Because we were to be disposed of and when we were gone nobody would kick up about land or rights. The Natives of Canada see this woman as Hitler. All the Natives of this continent are related, and when one hurts, all hurt. But she didn't do it, you say. She toured the parochial schools. She met with the politicians who enacted these horrific schemes. She was told of every law when they ask for her approval. And she approved it all. No qualms. No questions. Approved for humans to be treated this way because we were the wrong color and worshipped the wrong God. And because we wanted our land back. Ask the Qikiqtani about "assimilative" efforts through the 60s and 70s. Ask the women who even today are being sterilized under laws from the 50s and 60s. Native sovereignty is worse in Canada than in the US. And she would tour the facilities and smile. Hear the effects of these laws, the forced family separations, the land grabs, the destruction of everything they held dear, the outlawing of tens of thousands of years of faith, and she approved. Every single time. The most powerful woman in the world could have stopped all of this when she ascended the Throne. Instead, she said "cool" and went on about her business. I do not believe she bore them ill will. She didn't think about them at all, unless she was approving a law or visiting that country. She was not as I understand wantonly cruel. But we weren't people until we "killed the Indian to save the man." Hate would be easier to explain. Multiply this sentiment by all the countries the crown controls or controlled at the beginning of her reign. Because I'm hearing it from multiple other countries already. I only talk daily with Canadian Natives. They are my Pan-Native family. Their pain is my pain. Why did I say that earlier? Because I'm a South AL Native that has spent something like 18 years here and know from spending time with you all that the royal family is just people like us. I will not wish a hell on anyone. Not that I believe in one any more. This is Jimmy Savile on an intercontinental scale. And that's something that every country and every person will have to sort for themselves. I hate nobody here, dislike nobody here. This strikes a nerve with me, though. I know the persecution they talk about, though a different group did it to me. I deal with many things they do. I understand their anger. And I believe it is deserved. Be mad at me if you want. Ban me if you feel it is necessary. But look up what Canadian Natives have gone through, are still going through. Think about why they are angry, why they feel about her the way they do. I don't hate her. But I want people to know why people will be posting such hate in the days to come. Everybody has two things in this world. A right to their opinion and a reason they hold it. Only by examining the latter can you judge the former.
I know I said I was done here, but I hadn't clicked unsubscribe yet, and I just have to clear new notifications when I get them. Before I do bugger off however, I feel it's important to say this public. I don't feel the need to defend @KayinBlack or their arguments because they are more than capable of doing that on their own, but I do feel the need to step in and make a public statement of support. The way that people have been responding in this thread has been absolutely disgusting, and it makes me ashamed to be part of this community. It's gone well beyond debate and into the territory of personal attacks and mob mentality. Be better, this isn't ****ing twitter.
Clearly sentiments are high from both sides, and imho both have made mistakes here. For Kayin to post an unqualified and pretty inflammatory statement without any background is misguided. For ModSquid to jump on him for it is also misguided. As ever in this sub I hope we're all adult enough to keep it civil. Perhaps Kayin could post a thread with some further detail for us to peruse and appreciate the scale of the problem? I must admit to being pretty ignorant of Canadian culture, and would always welcome more information.
People need to realise that the queen was a symbol of the nation for some, but a symbol of imperialism to others. A debate about this can be held in another thread.
Please do bugger off!! Whether you support the Monarchy or not, a person died yesterday, a person who whether you like it or not meant something to some of us and was respected by some of us. Kayinblack chose to claim people would be partying about the fact that person died, literally hours after that person died. He then likened that person to Hitler. What sort of response did you or him expect. Go forth and multiply. Support him all you want, his comments and claims were crass, ill timed and smacked of posting something to get a reaction. Seems Kayinblack can't seem to make his mind up on the passing of our Queen either: Then the next minute he's comparing her to Hitler and claiming its all one big party now.
I did notice the extremes of the two posts and it left me somewhat confused. I do think we should all calm down a bit though. I do think there is a time and a place for discussion on the Monarchy, as someone who is not a Royalist I have my own views, but I don't celebrate death. We can all at least, if nothing else, have compassion on the simple understanding of loss which everyone has unfortunately felt at some point in their lives.
I thought I'd left this behind, but apparently I still get notifications when my posts are quoted... Please don't put words in my mouth, even implied ones. I haven't said a damned word about Wot I Think. But it boils my piss when I see people being personally attacked and dogpiled, in what is supposed to be a "serious" thread, for daring to hold a different world view. Maybe you think it's the wrong time or the wrong place, but that's irrelevant to my point. I expect this forum to be better than divisive cess pits like Twitter or reddit. But fine, you shall have your wish @stuartpb. I'm already avoiding social media for a while, so I guess I'll just add this entire website to that list.
Ok I sincerely apologise then, I see your point. I appreciate the fact the Royal family and discussion of that is going to be divisive and there are opposing views to my own. Having said that though, I do think Kayinblack posted that which he did to elicit the response he expected and wanted.
Social media is, as ever, a bonfire of stupidity and hatred. I hope we can rise above getting too offended when we don't agree here, please keep it civil everyone.
I'll be glad to gather sources. I don't care that she died, and I don't wish ill of the dead. Their crimes die with them. But my cousins are out there and people should know why they hold their views. And, that they have good reason to do so. India is blowing up similarily, but I don't know enough about their issues to fill a thimble. Other countries all are echoing these sentiments, and I understand even less of their plight. English colonialism is gonna come home to roost will I or nil I. I'm letting you know that their anger is out there and in my opinion quite valid. But, I'll bugger off this thread and work on sources. Sources are important in this context, and I came with none. Just look at the evidence when I return with it, please?
That would in fact be your own (elected) government, who do not take their lead from the sovereign of any other nation, as far as I'm aware. Until the very recent death of a foreign monarch, apparently. I’d be interested to see the connected societal progress on this front, as per Kayin’s assertion that now is finally the time for action. Keep us posted yeah, Kayin? Maybe start a thread. Edited for accuracy. Maybe. But there's always time to consider before hitting "Post Reply", plus there are both Edit and Delete buttons... ...whereas the lack of use of said buttons kind of makes any such rebuttal inevitable, as shown by the many responses to the original "misguided" comment, not just mine. Is it because mine was more verbose? Please. There was a Ukraine war thread somewhere, where Matt ruled arbitrarily that anyone posting in support of Russia would be banned from the forums. How far does this arbitrary forum governance reach? If slagging off the recently-deceased Queen of England is fair game, then we need to reassess what constitutes an opinion. Does that mean Russians aren't allowed to air their views on Ukraine on this forum but anti-establishment death-revellers are? This indeed isn't Tw@er or anywhere else and by extension it means that, as I alluded to before, respect works both ways. Did anyone slag off your miserable [insert relative] when they died? No. Because it's not the civilised or respectful thing, regardless of your view. Look - I had up until this point given up on getting involved in opinion posts on here, because it brings out the worst of the usual self-righteous warriors and I'd rather not fall out with people I'd otherwise get along with over pointless differences of personal opinion (easily done on the internet), but this just crumbled my biscuits. I can only imagine the response if someone announced that they were having a celebratory 9/11 bash this weekend on behalf of the global undertrodden and the misrepresented minor nations of the Middle East. If you're not going to think about other peoples' feelings, then at least think about potential responses before posting, or deal with the fallout when you go ahead and post anyway. Since this has caused a stir though, I am going to get involved again because I have a strong feeling about the way this has been handled. The two sides to this are i) personal opinion about the monarchy; and ii) respect for the passing of a human being. They don't both belong in this particular thread - there is another one for that very purpose. Whilst I respect everyone’s right to have an opinion, having one does not automatically confer the right to also be a diick. Equally, being part of a minority does not make your opinion count for more than others’ out of fear of causing offence when rejected as inappropriate for the audience. I’ve been tiptoeing around the forum for some time now in an attempt to not take sides or cause any such offence anywhere because hey, life’s too short and all that, plus I have other things to do/other convos I’d rather have with the majority of folk on here who seem to be reasonable (and helpful technically, which is an absolute godsend) but ceebs now. New rule for me - I’ll happily discuss and explore alternative opinions but at the point at which they become distasteful then I’m going to follow the examples set and pull the gloves off, since all opinions apparently count. Says one person claiming to be representative of all. If that is indeed the case, then clearly no-one at all is capable of evolving (as is so often touted as being the way forward by the very person posting) and thus they've all just lost face in my book, based on their spokesperson. Sounds like a Canada issue, not a Lizzie issue. She doesn't make your rules and if you can't cope with repealing abhorrent 70 year-old laws on your own terms then what hope do you have as a nation? So you say. If no evidence for this exists, then it is clearly intended as inflammatory and according to other comments, such a claim has no place here. Sadly, if it does exist, then it's distasteful to most (according to posted opinion) and has no place here either. Start another thread with an appropriate title if you feel the urge; that way, those who want to avoid getting involved can do so. She did in fact set up a fkg massive fund to “cure preventable blindness throughout the Commonwealth" (which is why it's a commonwealth, not an empire - look it up) and enable potential future leaders from all walks of life. Both of those goals would include Canada as a recipient. How you rep inside of Canada is up to your reps. Yeah, that thing about respect again. Respect for others, others' beliefs etc. works both ways. You know EXACTLY what response you're going to engender by posting shiit about anyone's death mere hours after they've died, let alone the beloved (if that's indeed your personal take) figurehead of a nation. Yeah, but again - discussing the view of a particular cultural institution constructively is one thing, revelling in (partying over, in fact) someone's death is another. Especially when you're posting for effect. Because if that isn't the reason for posting, then that just makes you obnoxious and intolerant of others' feelings on what might be a sensitive issue for them. Ironic. You don't need to apologise for this - this is accurate and isn't putting words in anyone's mouth. It's what happened. And indeed it is being done so. Anyone who wants to avoid it or participate thus has the choice, because that is the topic and title of that particular thread. And if you want to gather sources and evidence supporting your particular view of the validity of the monarchy, then I helpfully suggest that the abovementioned forum may be the more appropriate place to air them. This. Although I would insert "...and if you've nothing of respectful value to contribute...". Have at it, warriors.
I'm gutted. Absolutely gutted. It's strange. Really strange. I have never been a royalist, but at the same time nothing ever bothers me enough to get me to the point I would go somewhere and outwardly disrespect something. I learned yesterday that I really did give a ****. For years I had taken her for granted. And I shouldn't have, because she was an incredible person. Still working two days before her death at 96. So as respect is earned she clearly earned mine. I don't give a crap about the ins and outs. I will miss her. A lot. More than I ever realised I would. God speed Lizzie.
BTW doesn't surprise me an American is running his/her mouth. Been going on all day. I would worry about the state your own affairs are in before putting your nose into any more.
As I explained to a few Americans earlier today. Imagine having someone in your country who was a born leader. A figure head, a hero to many. At the same time imagine that they dripped class and style. Then imagine they spent over 70 years hardly ever putting a foot wrong, whilst working tirelessly for their country and working their ass off at the same time. She was still at work two days before she passed away. So that means she was 96, and still working tirelessly for her nation. Then imagine that she wasn't a foul mouth tramp with a trash mouth that started hurling insults after about ten seconds, and didn't get paid for old rope like a true "celebrity". Now also imagine that person had a shitty child. One who caused her a lot of problems and pain, yet was able to do what she needed to do even in times of utter embarrassment. To cast him aside and strip him of his titles, whilst remaining a true figurehead and leader at the same time. That would be hard for any parent to deal with. I think that she earned her status. Obviously in the beginning it was given to her, but bugger me if I have EVER seen any one who truly deserved to be her it was her. They say respect is earned. I tell you dude, she earned it in bucket loads. Time and time again.
Dude I used to get mad. Like seeing my mother work 3 jobs just to feed my brother and I and keep a roof over our heads. Like you know? what does she actually effing do? maybe I should have taken the time out to realise. My mother got to retire in her 60s. Her life is dramatically better and easier now.
