Columns Loving games to death

This is a statement written by Mr. CardJoe a few weeks ago that, as you can see/read, is so utterly false and biased that not even he will want to acknowledge it now that he has written an article outlining fanboys and their irrational sense of fact vs. opinion. Can anyone say "irony"?

For those of you that are confused on why I felt it was worth using his statement: the PS3 has always had backwards compatibility with PS1 games from the start, just not the ability to download them and play them on the PS3/PSP. According to his statement he said that the PS3 never had BC with PS1 games until the firmware update and that was a checkmark against them in terms of his personal rating.

Also, another thing I found funny. Of all of the things that he could have written: where he was born, how he became involved with bit-tech, what sparked his interest in technology in general (not just Monkey Island, atleast I wouldn't have expected that to be the main catalyst), where he thinks he will be in the next few years, etc., he somehow found a way to stick the PS3 in there and say that he almost

There is a difference between a 'fanboy' and a person that has logical/ethical reasoning to stick up for a product or a cause that has been misrepresented not just through people's opinions, but also through falsified facts. I know that I am one of the reasons for his wanting to write about fanboys. The funny thing is that I do not and have not owned a Sony product for over 4 years and I do not own a PS2 or a PS3 or a PSP or whatever, so I have left no room open for anyone to say that I am just trying to make myself feel better for purchasing a PS3.

This leads me to my last statement:

Joe, you must agree that you, yourself, are a fanboy. Do you agree? I mean you are just as bad for trying to put the PS3 down as someone trying to stick up for it (like for example Me). Does anyone agree with that statement?

I am not one for arguing or trying to start a conflict, but when people like Joe start saying things that are completely based on opinion and then he tries putting them off to be fact, well that's when I will start putting my foot down and start saying something to either prove it's truth/reasoning or it's fallacy.

I believe every console has it's advantages and uniqueness, and if one person can't utilize it's features or let alone afford it, then that's their situation, but that doesn't make it right to put it down. I want every console to be given it's right place and time and I feel the Wii has had it's share along with the 360 and I think PS3 needs to be given the same respect even though it didn't meet everyone's expectations in terms of pricing/BC (especially in the UK/EU), but of course it will take time, but atleast give it a chance. That's all that I have to say on it.

Also, last but not least: Welcome to bit-tech Joe. I don't mean to come across as hateful or that your presense wasn't wanted/needed, but I needed to let you know what I was thinking and I hope that you take my statements in the upmost respectful manner and/or you take them to be from a logical/realistic point of view and not an irrational/biased fanboy's point of view that you have been led to believe.

Peace.

 

First of all; it's a column, not an objective article so it's a platform for my opinions.

As for the PS3 always having had BC, I have to confess I didn't know that. That means the statement I made on the forums (which are kept seperate from normal, objective articles) isn't ironic, just wrong. Sorry about that. Though my point always was that, since the market completely expects the PS3 to have BC (like 360 and Wii), boasting about it to such an extent is a little stupid. It's like a car dealer saying:

"OMG! This car has seatbelts too!"
"I know it has seatbelts, I would have expected seatbelts. All cars have seatbelts nowadays. Tell me about the engine you foolish car salesman."

Secondly, the console I was actually going to slate in the column was the Wii, not the PS3. I actually have the remnants of the article if you don't believe me, but basically I think that the Wii is too focused at families and casual gamers atm to make much of an impact in the market in the long term. Hardcore gamers want something different than the Wii offers generally.

Lastly, yep. I am a fanboy and thats the point, that I will now be trying to avoid the over the top statements and over defensive reactions to someone slating my favourtie game or console. I'm a Monkey Island fanboy, a PC fan boy, etc.But I am a fan who is trying to detach himself from the attitude that I think could end up ruining legitimate franchises.

And don't worry, if I couldn't deal with critiscism then I wouldn't have got this far

In reply to your first paragraph, I was born in Winchester, grew up in Derbyshire and yes Monkey Island was pretty much the first spark that got me into gaming and technology. From the fun I had with that I moved on to other things, migrating from Amiga's to PC's and consoles. I actually have a page on my blog about it (link below), but I just didn't think the article should have been an 'ego' piece.

Cheers for the feedback though.

 

The PS3 has not had a good amount of BC in europe since day 1.

The first update only made 6 out of the current top 10 games in the UK playable.

Now to prove to you something look here: http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc/bcGames.htm

Look for Final Fantasy, FFXII, the latest game in the franchise, the one which had massive publicity in Europe prior to release, does not play correctly on the PS3.

This is why I shall stand by CardJoe, we as Europeans have been treated like crap by SCEE.

If Microsoft came over to the US said, "We'll charge you $200 more then everyone else, give you less compatibility, less hardware and a poorer service compared to other countries, but we'll carry on giving the other countries the better hardware" how would you feel?

We've become too accustomed to "Rip Off Britain" in the past decade, and I'm sorry to say this, but I'm now completely pissed off with it.

DevDevil85: Please can you give me valid reasons for what SCEE has done to us in the UK?

 

Well Joe for all the ranting and raving you've done so far, I was expecting the PS3 to be the huge disappointment. I'm sorry the Wii didn't meet your expectations. It didn't meet mine either.

Secondly, the column was meant to introduce YOU to the bit-tech community, which is why I felt you should've added more personable things such as what you did in your reply to me, giving the community more of an understanding of who you are as a person and where your values lay.

Thirdly, I still don't understand what you mean in terms of your seatbelt quote because in the US the PS3 did come with BC for both the PS1 and PS2 when it debuted, so basically you're talking about the UK/EU version which you didn't specify. And even if you were, it still doesn't make sense because, again, it did come with full BC with the PS1 and practically 1500+ titles for the PS2 and growing so....

Thank you for acknowledging yourself as being a fanboy, but to think you are destroying a franchise based on words in a forum is a little over-the-top. You are just expressing your opinion, but whenever fact comes into play then it's just fact and sometimes people need to hear it over and over again until they acknowledge it as being fact. So I disagree on your statement that fanboys destory franchises and products.

Also, sometimes being a fanboy is good. Standing up for a product you care about even in the worst of times is sometimes fulfilling and justified even if it's a little flamboyish and rageful, but sometimes people put it on themselves when they spout something out that shouldn't have.

Criticism is always good too. It means people are actually reading your articles and that people can hear you, and you can also see what they think about them. So I can understand where you're coming from when you say that you have dealt with criticism most of your life as writer.

Well I guess I will have to read your blog on what made Monkey Ball spark your interest in gaming technology.

Thanks Joe for the reply, it's been fun so far.

 

DougEdey, I know pricing in the UK/EU sucks. I'm sorry for that. I guess just wait for a price drop in the near future. With waiting, the gaming/movie library will accumulate and Playstation Home will be out and so will a rumble controller, which idk when it'll be coming out, but I would expect almost as soon as Sony and Immersion can work out their differences. Again, I hear you on the price, but the only real hardware decrease that I know of was the physical PS1/PS2 emulator, and that's it so idk where else to go with it.

As for the bad BC in UK/EU, it's could be an issue between the hardware in the US being NTSC based and the UK/EU versions being PAL. Again, idk what the cause for bad BC is, but I can tell you Sony didn't do it on purpose and that there's gotta be a reason for it rather than them "hating" the UK/EU, and I know that they will do all they can to get as many games BC. Remember, emulation is a slow process that involves many variations of games and the latest PS2 games will utilize every available option that the console offers and due to the multiple revisions of the PS2 I can kind of see how hard it would be to get every game to work through the emulator, especially because of the many hardware/software revisions that the PS2 has had during its lifetime. Anyways let me know your opinion on it.

 

I somewhat doubt a slight different resolution would break so many games when even the simplest of simple image renderers can cope with differing resolutions, and the PS3 is hardly a simple renderer.

Disclaimer: Potential rant ahead, it's late and I'm tired. All this is only for the benefit of lively discussion and futhering of human knowledge. That said, let the games begin:

On the wider debate, I'm kind of lost actually. Joe was hardly massivley laying into the PS3, he only used it as an example of a product which has many so called fanboys, which is hardly debateable. It was hardly a rant at the PS3 by any means. And as for what the column "should" have been: it's Joe's column, to be honest it's up to him what he puts in it.

Taking a step back for a moment, it appears the irony is on you Devil. Joe writes a column examining fanboys, a kind of person who goes endlessly on about a product even when the conversation isn't wholly about it, get overly negative and defensive and start having a go at people for simply saying what everyone else is thinking. Then, low and behold, someone comes along and starts going endlessly on about a product that wasn't even the focus of the column, gets overly negative and defensive about the product, even presumes bits of the column were about said product when they weren't, and has a go at everyone who enters the conversation to back Joe up, even with hard facts as posted by Sony themselves. If you aren't the most stereotypical fanboy there ever was, and exactly the kind of person Joe pointed out just makes everyone else hate their favourite product even more, I don't know who is.

Not everyone is out to needlessly diss the PS3, Joe's points were both valid and accurate, as you've so wonderfully demonstrated, so for that reason I guess he has you to thank for that. Truth is, the PS3 is not an awful console, it's not awful at all, but people do bash it is simply because of a) Sony's attitude and b) the fanboys attitude. If Sony weren't so up themselves (which no-one can deny they are) and there weren't quite so many blindly faithful fanboys, it wouldn't nearly get the negative attention it recieves currently. So in that respect Joe's absolutely right, the more you and other Sony fanboys go on about the PS3, the less people respect it.

 

omg....

Alright Bauul, so you're saying that if anyone tries to speak up for the PS3, even if it's justified through a false statement, then they should be considered a fanboy?

Joe wrote a column to try and introduce himself to bit-tech. He wrote about console fanboys. He also mentioned Sony in a bad light (as usual) which was something I didn't think needed to be in there, so I felt I needed to speak up. He also said that fanboys say things that are irrational and not true, so I felt it was worth quoting something he said a few weeks ago that was irrational and not true. That's not ironic at all is it?

Secondly, I am bored either at work or school and I have the time to type such long replies. I have nothing else to do, but surf the web and browse through bit-tech and read articles. I also love to be active in the forums.

Thirdly, his article DID involve statements regarding the PS3 and because of his past statements I took the console that he was referring to as the biggest letdown, to be the PS3 and not the Wii, which he later corrected and I gladly thanked him for it.

Fourth, Joe himself is a fanboy of the Wii, so why aren't you giving him as much crap as me? Just like he can ridicule the Wii, I too can say that the PS3 is overpriced and due to the half-assed games, the small movie selection and without Playstation Home it is not worth the money at this time especially in the UK/EU. Remember, I live in the US and I have a different interpretation of the PS3, so it is kind of reflected in my comments which I am sorry for.

When everything is said and done: I am NOT a fanboy, just a guy with reason to keep the playing fields even and to not let spam hurt the PS3's or any other products' image just like I would stand up for the 360 if people said things that weren't true about it. So I'm sorry I have annoyed you Bauul, and I'm sad that you think I fit into Joe's definition of some low-life fanboy who thinks only one-sided and who has no other opinions that are based on fact/reason and that I am killing any product/franchise that I proudly support, whether verbally or contextually.

I'm getting tired of people like yourself who think people who actually have a grasp on the issue should just shut up and let the issues slide, even when people's opinions try to outweigh the facts.

So you're saying Bauul that the opening quote I used in my first post was a valid/accurate statement provided by Joe? Please explain....

 

In defense of fan art, and fans of fan art

Hello; as a co-creator of the Curse of Monkey Island radio drama referenced in the article (and the one who had the idea in the first place), I thought I would say hi and share some thoughts. First off, I’m of course really pleased that people are listening to (and talking about) the shows. It’s been really thrilling to see people from all over the world checking it out, and we’re so happy that the response has been pretty positive from both hardcore fans and people who’ve never heard of the game. And with regard to the author’s point: there’s definitely a phenomenon of blind, aggressive devotion to games/consoles that can lead to unreasonable expectations, among other things. Which is too bad.

In any case, I appreciate that the author seems to be talking more about the context of online communities than the radio drama or the play referenced, but it seemed sad to have such a negative association with our project when I know these radio dramas don’t represent that particular type of fandom. To begin with, my co-creator and I both love and have long-term projects in radio and radio dramas independent of our love for CMI; so it was as a radio drama fan as much as a CMI fan that the idea of combining the two loves occurred to me.

My co-creator and I don’t happen to actively participate in online forums (and I don't mean any disrespect by it; we're big fans of worldofmi.com, for example, and think they're a wonderful fan resource). Not one of the other voice actors had played the game before being cast, and most hadn’t heard of it. We often encouraged their instincts when they differed from the character interpretations in the game, and had to cut a ton of beloved puzzles and dialogue, as well as add a lot of new material, to make the whole thing work as a radio drama. I’m really proud of my partner’s additions to the script, actually; I think they’re genuinely faithful to the spirit of the game while serving the specific needs of the radio drama format.

So, based on my personal experience of trying to meet the challenges of this type of project, I suggest that the author consider an alternate perspective on this corner of fan activity. Adaptation, when successful anyway, is an act of both sacrifice and creation, of critical and imaginative thinking that addresses the standards of both the original format and the new one. As such, it is rather an antidote to the kind of narrow-minded obsession demonstrated by the so-called ‘fanboys’. I like to think that fan-artists, and of course those who appreciate such deviances from canon, don’t pose a threat to innovation and rejuvenation in a franchise, but rather are the sort to welcome and encourage it.

All the best,
Sarah

http://johncusick.mypodcast.com/

 

If I can take any copy of FFXII and goto any PS2 and it works, then if I take any copy of FF7 and take that to a PS2 and it works, why should it be any different on a PS3?

 

Ok, I guess it's time for me to step in and say something.

Firstly, I'd like to apologise to CurseRadio. I didn't mean to imply that the radio show would damage the Monkey Island franchise. I've actually listened to more of it over the weekend and I really love it. My point only was that people going on about games in that way may end up ruining the games for themselves by getting their hopes up too high, the same is true of people who make unofficial sequels. I myself have made fanart etc for Monkey Island, so i understand your response. Sorry if I offended your very good radio drama. I like your definition of yourself as fan-artists and not fanboys, it essentially illustrates what I was trying to say.

As for the column, I can write it about whatever I want. There were a lot of plans for what the article could be about and, as I said before, I did try to write an intro piece about myself but didn't want to give readers useless information about me. It's not about my ego, and if I want to remain private then I have that choice.

I'm not a wii-fanboy, thats why I almost wrote the article about hwo the wii is failing for hardcore gamers. It's not that the Wii has failed to meet my expectations, it's just that I as a solo, hardcore gamer, don't get my solo, hardcore needs fulfilled as much as I do with a PC or other console.

Lastly, the point is that fanboys (not fan-artists) may end up turning popular opinion against themselves with their attitudes. It's a plausible thing to say. If a neutral person comes along and someone tries to ram an Xbox down his throat, that person may end up choking and not liking Xboxes. Everytime a fanboy goes on a tirade, this is what they essentially do.

Lastly, everyone should go listen to the Curse of Monkey Island radio drama. It really is very very good, as is the play which I plan to finish watching with my girlfriend over the weekend. I'm not ordering you to that though - it's just a suggestion

 

Lol, ok look, I'm really not trying for an argument, and I'll freely admit it was late and thus comments are usually more blunt than would be freely acceptable. I was actually trying to be as objective as possible: I'm not an 360 fanboy, or a Wii fanboy, or a PS3 fanboy, or really anything fanboy related when it comes to consoles, they don't interest me all that much simply due to the nature of the machines they are and the games they are catered for (i.e., not FPS or Strategy).

However, I, like many, many other people, do get aggravated by fanboyism for anything really, especially when it's unwarranted. Unfortunately for the PS3, they have far more than their fair share of fanboyism. As such, when someone starts sticking up for the PS3, people often immediately take it be fanboyism, even when potentially it isn't.

However, what you have been saying, I'm sorry to say, really does come across as fanboyism. I'm not trying to needlessly have a go at you, just letting you know. Joe was using the PS3 as an example of a product who's reputation has been damaged by fanboys, which is perfectly true and I no-one can deny it. What I meant by the fact you've demonstrated this perfectly was that you sticking up for the PS3 in such an aggressive manner has made me like the PS3 just a little bit less. Can't you see by getting so defensive about it, you're not going to convince anyone to suddenly like the PS3, they're not going to go "omg, Devil's right, how did I not see this before?", they're just going to sigh and dislike the PS3 and its fans even more. Personally, I have nothing against the PS3, it's a good console that does what it says on the tin, what I do have issues with is Sony (who doesn't?) and people who overly aggressively stick up for it.

Ah enough of this, this isn't going anywhere and we'd have more success at proving/disproving God than reaching a consensus at this. In conclusion, all I was trying to say is that Joe pointed out that aggressive fanboyism turns people away from the product they're sticking up for, something that this very discussion has aptly demonstrated. So yeah, enough of this, lets move on to a less tired topic that we might actually reach a consensus about.


So, fast zombies, ala 28 Days Later, Dawn of the Dead remake etc.
A natural evolution of the undead form, or a gross misrepresentation of the classic zombie image? Discuss!

 

Actually it's simply because the people who became zombies, all came from a rave where they all had taken speed

 

Not an evoloution. If anything they'd all start off as fast zombies and then when their muscles rot they'd DEVOLVE into normal zombies.

Did you bring this up just because you know I'm a fanboy of all things Zombie? Nevermind, shut up and prepare for the impending zombie apocalypse!

 

Lol, actually no, I just had a proper kick ass dream about zombies last night. I was in a room with like two dozen zombies armed only a pool cue. It was sweet on a Braindead kind of level, if only one could record your dreams it'd make for some sweet ass viewing later! Lol.

And be realistic Joe, I've been preparing for the impending zombie apocolypse for years now, even got my own Go Bag ready and everything!

 

Alright, it's time for me to also stop trying to stick up for the PS3 when pretty much everyone just hates Sony as a company. I guess I'm kind of seeing it now. It's just Sony as a company and not the PS3 itself (when you leave out the pricing and half-assed games). I am sorry for sounding fanboyish. It's just that I have been lucky to play the PS3 in-person and I don't want to see it end up like the Dreamcast (the best console ever! Go Shenmue!) because I feel like it has potential to rival the 360. So I will stop on my "tyrades" and I will just let the PS3 talk for itself. Thanks guys for the feedback and sorry Joe for sounding like such a pompass a**hole because I'm really not trying to be. I just hope you see where I'm coming from.

Peace.

 

I blame Nintendo. If they'd just released that damn SNES add on, we wouldn't be hearing about ps3

I'll go where the games i want to play are.... who cares about who makes what.


On the other hand, Nintendo have a very good customer service reputation.
Sony generally don't.

 

I LOVE MONKEY ISLAND 2

 

Maybe the opposite is true

Nice little Article Joe, but I think you may be drawing the wrong conclusions. Take the English football league for instance. Nowhere will you find a more devote "fanboy", loyal to their team. It's this passion for the sport that has made it, what it is today and Business are only too happy to cash in on this loyalty. Agreed these people are OTT about there nearest and dearest hobbie, but their passion for gaming is what we need. Business has never been better for the gaming industry (World Of Warcraft showing the potential for earnings from a well thoughtout game) due in no small part I imagine to sells from friends promoting the game to their mates (fanboy behaviour?). Speading the word (good and bad) generates interest, which inturn generates sales. In the is case I think we really need to "imbrace the Horror" and "let loose these dogs of war". Passion sells.

P.S Been reading these fine forums for a while now so was about time I signed up. Hello everyone, hope there's room for another old fart