Err, the driving instructor wasn't just a passenger, he was not only technically in control of the vehicle but supposed to be teaching NuTech how to drive, which includes proper driving habits. I'm sorry but it's more than a simple mistake, the instructor is in a position of responsibility and throught his actions not only put his, and NuTech's, lives in danger but also the lives of other motorists. It was just fortunate that the accident doesn't appear to have led to any serious injuries but that may not be case next time.
Culley also forgets that the driving instructor drove the car after the accident (either immediately to get NuTech home, or after NuTech had driven them both home) whilst still way over the limit. I'd also point out that (no offence to NuTech) his pupil is a learner driver and is being supervised from a dual-control car for a REASON; namely, that he cannot drive. If anything you need to be extra alert and sober to make sure that the learner doesn't forget which way to go round roundabouts and the like. What would you say if a flying instructor cracked open a couple of Stellas on a training flight? Or a supervising doctor popped the lid on a few tinnies whilst overseeing a trainee doctor? The reason people here feel sympathy towards the instructor is because of a uniquely British (and actually Australian too) desire to downplay the risks of drink driving. It's been going since the Eighties when people used to boast about how many units they could down and still make it home intact. Lots of people have driven at least once whilst suspecting they might be over the limit, and on the basis of this experience, are often inclined to extend a helping hand to people who do so and have an accident. Well, that's moronic. Yes, drink drivers never intend to hurt anybody, but unfortunately they're more than capable of doing so and regularly do. They are also famed for their inability to learn their lesson. These point towards people who need to recognize the danger that driving drunk poses to others and letting this guy off (presumably by NuTech lying by omission and accepting blame for the damage to the car to the AA) is not going to get the point across. And for the last time, sorting some deal with the instructor is BLACKMAIL! So stop advocating it!
I am more than a bit concerned that people are prepared to turn a blind eye towards a drunk driver out of some false sense of sentimentality ("But think of the wife and kids...") while then happily advocating extorting money from him to keep quiet (what if he refuses to pay up? Wife and kid suddenly not that important anymore?). Drink driving ruins lives too. Got the picture now? Good. Sorry to resort to shock tactics, but I mean, really. Alcoholics generally have very good reasons for having succumbed to drink. We don't approve of their behaviour, but we empathise with the reasons. However alcoholics also rely on other people to support their addiction: the friend who buys them one when money's tight, the spouse who drags them home, cleans them up and lets them sleep it off while lying to the boss ("No he can't come into work today, he's got this really nasty cold... yeah, he just doesn't seem able to shake it. Yes, I'll take him to see the doctor..."), and perhaps gives him a bollocking when he's sobered up so he can be all contrite and maintain the fantasy for others and most of all, himself, that he's going to change, honest... Bollocks to that. With alcoholism if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If you tolerate it, you enable it. Instead of thinking about this man's career or his wife or kids you could do well to remember the girl in the picture. Her drink driver had enablers too.
Nexxo, perhaps concluding that the instructor is a raging alcoholic is a bit too early, considering the only proof we have is one beer in the wrong time.
I think NuTech has already said that the instructor had already had 2 or 3 beers by the time of the accident, and it's probably likely that had the lesson gone without incident he would have continued drinking throughout. Then there's the fact, which Nexxo mentioned earlier, that the instructor even felt comfortable enough to crack open a beer during a driving lesson. Perhaps he's not a raging alcoholic but his actions seem to indicate he potentially has an issue with alcohol.
My impression of the instructor is that of a young man having made a mistake, not that of an alcoholic. He's job description and the fact that he has a small family, wife and a young child, does not (necessarily) indicate alcoholism, it indicates youth, and with youth (even in his position) stupidity can follow. I am in no way telling you what to do here. I'm in no position to do so and neither is anyone else. You are your own man, the decision is yours to make and yours alone. Its fine to take advice and take advice given into consideration, of course, even on a forum where many (yours truly) often like to shoot his mouth off. But as I said - at the end of the day it's your call whether you decide to let him off the hook or to report him. I would use my intuition, here. you know. ... Hmm. I don't have to suggest for you to not head down the road of extortion, if I have read you correctly. which I have. Extortion would go against your very person. so no need then. Lastly. I hope that you do not end up with any complications. as previously pointed out it can take time for neck injuries to manifest themselves, so be careful and take care of yourself. /good luck Edit: When I said "shoot our mouths off" that was not to suggest that previous views and advice given would had been daft or stupid. I really need to make this clear, what I meant, more hinted at, for those observant, were that a few would do best with backing off! a bit with "I would do this why did you do that you moron" and "if you don’t do this you are responsible for…" and so on. None of us were there, and there are things such as a case by case basis , shades of grey, in fact, an entire spectrum of colours to take into consideration here. So maybe it's black & white, sure, but only NuTech knows what palette he is looking at, and the pallette is likely to be even sharper today. perhaps even black & white.
I don't give two arses whether he's a "nice guy" or "has a family". He was in control of the car, supposed to be teaching - Regardless of whether you're at test standard or not, a driving instructor always needs to be on the look out, because you lack experience. He started drinking during your lesson? I don't blame you for not stopping immediately and demanding he stop, or fund your trip home. I expect it'd be such a surreal situation that your ability to react would be somewhat stumped. He broke the law, and endangered not only his life, but yours and every other road user around you. First time mistake or not, he should not be an instructor - Simple as. My mother, driving instructor, shares this view. Inform AA. I'd even go so far as to get in touch with the Chief Examiner, by snail mail letter. Whether the Chief Examiner does anything about it or not, at least it's on record, and something for his check test examiner to be at least aware of. You shouldn't feel remorse for potentially taking his job from him, because he took it from himself by drinking on the job. As for the insurance/suing. Personally, after you left the car, I'd have nothing else to do with him other than what it took to get everything on record.
well maybe you could have your dad talk to the guy.. I mean it wasn't like he did it on purpose- people make mistakes as long as it was honest I'll be the first to say he was stupid.. but nobody got hurt- if your dad talked to him as a concerned parent it would go a lot farther in getting this guy to stop drinking on the job.. the 500 dollars is not extortion, it's just a small fine so he thinks twice next time.. the alternative is putting a working man out of work in this economy with a big black mark on his record *added thing is nobody knows in this situation.. I doubt the guy is going to implicate himself- it'll be his word against yours and this could all be taken care of with a simple talk that's the problem with going strait to the cops.. it all gets complicated and you get caught up in that mess- he has to handle the insurance claim, it could be over and done with that's true if he is a alcoholic.. I don't think a reality check by taking away his means of living is the right way to go about it- my opinion though!
Sorry but with all respect I have to disagree. A 440ml can of Stella with an alcoholic strength of 5% is 2.2 units. If it was a 500ml can it is 2.5 units. He had 2-3 beers in 30 minutes. This makes a total of 4.4 to 7.5 units in thirty minutes. One 500ml can more and he would have made the definition for "binge drinking". While giving driving instruction. Either way, for him to down three cans of high-strength beer in 30 minutes and not to be sloshed after that I would say he must have been a habitual drinker at least.
aye like malt liquor.. yeah 3 cans at 10 proof- he was drunk, maybe your right that doesn't sound too casual now that I think about it
Drunk on 3 cans? I can see how he is technically over the limit and his reactions WILL be impaired, but I'd imagine most people could drink that much without appearing drunk. Just because he didn't start to slur does not automatically classify him as an alcoholic as he can 'hold his drink'. It seems to me that a lot of people are jumping the gun. I would definitely not condone drink driving, and would not get into a car with someone who I thought had. Your situation is a bit different as the instructor was just a passenger, however I imagine that the law must cover this situation. As a learner you can only drive with someone who meets certain requirements (over 21, driven for so many years, etc) and I'd be surprised if it didn't also mention something about the said 'responsible' person not being under the influence of drink/drugs. Of course I've not looked into it, but I would thus assume what he did was illegal. If you go to the police they are unlikely to do anything. Without any evidence to show he was over the limit (breath/blood/urine test) they are simply not going to be able to pursue it. Even if he admits to them he was drinking, there is simply no proof that he was over the limit. That's just a fact. Suing the guy make work, but unless you really feel that the monetary gain is going to make you feel better, then it's probably not worth doing. Shopping him to the AA though is something you should certainly do. As his employer they'd be very interested to here if he'd been drinking on the job. At minimum they'd give him a warning, and if necessary they'd report him to the relevant authorities. Having not bent the facts and labelled him an alcoholic, this should be more than enough to stop him doing it again. As far as his family are concerned, the worst possible outcome is that he loses his job. We all know that many thousands of people have lost their jobs in recent times through no particular fault of their own so to be quite honest this guy deserves it. It isn't going to completely screw up his life and lead to his kid living a life of extreme poverty, he can join the many others claiming benefits until he finds something else to do. Thus imo it's not much of a moral dilemma... just enough to give him a kick in the ass and realise what an idiot he has been.
Minor point, but if it were cans it would almost have certainly been 440ml cans. It may have also been the newer 4% strength Stella... thus could have been as 'little' as 3.5 units. This is the same as one large glass of 14% wine - something that people would not think twice about having. Would you automatically label them too? I'm not saying it was right that he drank, as I think even contemplating to drink in his situation is nothing but stupid, simply that without the full facts it's a bit of a leap to label him as an alcoholic.
No he wasn't, he was in control of the vehicle and is subject to all the laws and restrictions he would be if he was the one sat behind the steering wheel.
Just a short update. My driving instructor has been hounding me a lot today and it's becoming quite uncomfortable. For his own sake, I'm hoping his actions won't force my hand before I've been able to get some independent advice. I've also realised something that should of been so obvious to me earlier but everything was hectic. Basically I don't think this 'AA standard claim' is real and it's actually my instructor trying to offer me £1000 of his own money disguised as a "standard payment AA makes when involved in small collisions" (his words, not mine). If I understood him correctly (he keeps his words annoyingly vague), he also wants me to corroborate his story that leaves out a few key details as well as stating the other driver drove off without stopping. I've told him (several times now) that I'm very busy with work and I'm still thinking about it, even though I have absolutely no intention of going that route. If he wants to lie to the AA, that's his decision. But as you can probably imagine, he's very, very anxious to get me on board with this. Also, another couple things I want to clear up. I'm a 25 year old grown man, so I'm not going to just let my parents deal with it. The only reason I mentioned by mother and sister was because I met them for lunch the following day to ask them for advice. As for my friends, the moment I mentioned the sum of money the solicitor estimated I could get from the AA, all their objectivity went out of the window. That is why I've not disclosed the amount here. As for the guy suggesting I should extort my instructor for £500, I feel sorry for you if you think that's an acceptable thing to do.
Which is what I said if you continued to read on. My point was simply that it isn't as straight forward as the driver being the one who was over the limit.
I would seriously consider telling him where to stick it. He knows he was in the wrong, his hounding of you today demonstrates as much, but he's asking you to break the law to cover up his mistake. The truth is most likely to emerge at some stage, and that will have serious implications for you, if you help him cover it up. He obviously can't handle the consequences of his actions, but that by no means excuses him. Driving instructors are held to much higher standards than "normal" drivers because of their responsibility to control the vehicle despite not being in direct control (Their only options in any given situation are really braking, use of the clutch, using the handbrake, or grabbing the steering wheel). It's arguable that this gives them quite a reasonable number of ways to control the car for a short period of time, but even so, it is far from ideal. Money shouldn't be your primary focus here. Yes, it'd be nice, but in my opinion your priorities should be; Keeping your name out of the mud. Offering the truth to the AA/chief examiner/the law, if you're asked by someone other than the driving instructor. Ignoring any contact from him, but keeping records of it so you can provide it if you need to. As for Stella, unless they were the pint cans, then the chances are very high that they're the 4% "Artois" versions that cropped up a while back. Not that it changes anything, drinking alcoholic beverages while in control of a vehicle is (as far as I know) illegal. Given that he was supposed to be teaching someone to drive, and paying even more attention to the road, then his actions are even more irresponsible. eek: Legally, the instructor is considered "in control" of the vehicle. If he's drinking as an instructor, he might aswell be drinking behind the wheel.
ah I'd take the money.. it's not extortion- we'll maybe technically but it happens all the time.. it's the same thing with insurance companies- you get paid either way.. just depends on how you look at things.. he'd be really happy if you took his money, trust me that's why he's offering it to you.. you can go the other route, but just remember- when the shoe is on the other foot down the line it's basically karma.. you'll both be happier this way not saying this guy is worth it but there's no harm in taking his offer.. the other route, if your going that way is long and full of ****
I don't see how him possibly being an alcoholic is really relevant to be honest. Even if he is, does that make what the man did worse? If he wasn't does it make it better? **** stirring in my opinion and doesn't weigh much on the outcome. Why does money have to be involved? Just grass him up to the AA like he deserves, police if you feel like really ruining him and be done with it. Or come clean to him, tell him you know what he's upto, you're severing your ties from an educational perspective and that he should have a really good think about what he's upto. Hell, write a letter to his wife if you're worried about his path in life like so many are here. Realistically - I don't see how he would get his license stripped and loads of points for drink driving. The police have no way of proving he was drunk at the time, and you seeing him drink 3 cans of Stella in the car won't stand for anything in todays courts. For all the police and CPS know, it could have been Stelle Artoist in the can that is sparking water (and before you lot go to town with that, thats just a hypothetical demonstration of a point). Likelihood of taking him to the cleaners is he will lose his job and possible something for fleeing the scene of a car accident. And a bundle of money for you, of course.
I know there's different opinions here and It's all quite a lot atm but I feel I need to say something too. I know exactly where you're coming from with your question as I too have the same feeling towards people that make a mistake but in this case I wouldn't necessarily say bad things about the instructor and take him for all he's got but when an instructor, who's meant to be a professional, puts your life in danger with something that could of easily of been avoided, then something has to be done about him. If any damage was actually done to you whether it be physical or mental (when I say mental, I mean it's actually having an effect on you in a negative way not just remembering a horrible day) then I say get some compensation from it. If nothing was really done, then there isn't really any point. Of course there's the point that julianmartin made which is that it sounds like you can't actually prove he was drinking at the time and it sounds as if the instructor would blatantly lie about it too so it would be a struggle getting him done for that. For now I say just get a new instructor and tell the AA about the situation purely because your life was put in danger.
AFAIK he would probably be under heavier scrutiny from the DSA, and probably lose his license to instruct new drivers. If consuming alcohol during his lesson, while supposed to be in control of a high risk vehicle, is what he sees as responsible behaviour? He shouldn't be teaching people to drive, anywhere. Losing his license to instruct is the least that ought to be done. Personally, I'd hope he got his license revoked too. Although, if he's a demonstrable alcoholic, it adds weight to the accusation that he was drinking while he was supposed to be in as much control of the vehicle as possible - There would be very little chance of him retaining his license. TheHippoz - As much as I see your point about karma, it's coming across as if you're supporting drink driving in this instance. There are laws against drink driving for a very good reason - See Nexxos link earlier - and going "Oh, it's more preferable in a karmic way to take money and let him get away with it" is not a responsible response. Shop him for what he did, the consequences are his to deal with, because he brought them on himself by breaking a law that should damn well be at the forefront of his mind, given his chosen profession.
