Yeah, so age is definitely the enemy I used to do the same as you, train my triceps and chest apart... until I discovered "pre-exhaustion". Sounded a bit counter-productive training my triceps on the same day as my chest, and training biceps on the same day as I do chin ups etc, but it works a treat, mark my words. Ever since then I've followed the same 4 day split routine, varying the exercises every 4 to 6 weeks but keeping the muscle groups in this order: day 1: back/biceps day 2: legs/abs day 3: chest/triceps day 4: shoulders/abs This way I train each muscle group only once per week, allowing plenty time for recovery and growth, and the workouts are more intense, which stimulates better growth. At first it felt a bit crap because I had to lower the weight of certain exercises, but the extra stress to the muscle soon showed its benefits, and I was doing 3 sets of 10 dips with a 20kg plate strapped to my waist lol. Oh, if only I was that strong now...
Tell me about it, I've been out of it for over 12 months now (officially started again yesterday) and damn was it a shock lol. I'm still getting conflicting answers about push / pull splits vs specific splits etc. etc. so I'm going to have to suck it and see on these ones, I'll run them for a month and see what sort of strength vs size gains I get and maybe switch back to my push / pull / legs split.
Seeing as its now turned into an epeen session, Ill just make my points more clearer and then you can tell me which parts you think are wrong and what you would do to make the muscles grow quicker. As far as Im concerned, if you want to gain muscle, you should be eating regular balanced meals that contain about 30% protein (about 20-30g) 5/6 times a day. Your body will have a nice supply of amino acids to repair the muscle microfibres to make you stronger and bigger from your intense weight training. I am saying that if you ate 500g of protein a day it would not make your muscles grow bigger, because your body cannot use that much protein a day. Likewise, eating more calories than your daily energy requirements are stored as fat and not as muscle. You cant eat more than you need and expect your body to somehow use it better than someone who eats the amount his body needs. I see bulking as something which promotes not watching the fat intake or calories (which might not be what Steve does), because imo and this is shared by other people having excess fat in your diet wont help build muscle. If it does, please explain how having more calories than your daily energy requirements will help build muscle. On a more specific note, and lets not overact, I think that Steve could have put on the muscle by not eating excess calories and having to 'cut' it later - as long as he gives his body regular protein he will put on muscle at the same speed as he would during a 'bulk', whereby you intake many more calories than you expend (and you wouldnt have to worry about shredding it because you wouldnt have the excess fat to lose).
A friend of mine would like to say : Also please remember the Ol' Scooby isn't a majority of people mate. EDIT: Also I fail to see anywhere how this has become an epeen issue.. nobody's saying they can lift more than the other etc.
epeen session? Don't be butthurt, 3lusive - I shared a pic to show that I'm not just talking crap. No need to throw stones at other contributors to the thread. As steve said, it becomes epeen when people say "I can lift X more than you", which is meaningless anyways since everybody has a different strengh/muscle mass ratio. And stop steering the discussion into no man's land - we're talking about calories, not fat (which would be a different discussion ENTIRELY)... I already have explained, and will again: the energy that you take in from your diet affects all aspects of living, not just training: yes, you need the energy to train, but you also need energy to work, and even energy to think (the brain burns calories, don't you know?) which directly affects your motivation to train. A surplus of calories is more likely to promote a healthy mental attitude as well as providing the required energy for intense workouts. And since nobody knows precisely how much energy is required, a surplus of 500kcal is typically assumed (inasmuch as it is possilble to calculate this). When I trained with a maintenance level of calories (and no sups) I was constantly tired, missing out sets in my workouts, making poor gains (if at all) and generally unmotivated. As soon as I changed my diet and started bulking, my gains went through the roof, especially muscle mass and strength gains. In short: more calories = more energy = more productive training. You can bash it all you like with textbooks and pseudo-scientific waffle (and Scooby, the man who makes videos of himself training at home but spent years in the gym getting huge), but the fact of the matter is that it works. It may not be the only way to train, but that's no reason to discredit it.
Obviously its dependent upon level of activity and bodyweight, but 30% gives you a good idea of of how much protein is in a healthy balanced diet (not that you guys would care about that seeing as you, as in Steve and his mate, stuff supplements in your bodies like candy). And its not possible to 'bulk' ie eat a massive surplus of calories and not put on fat, thats exactly what bulking is. Not that I agree with everything this guy says, but he pretty much says what bulking is and why its bad:
Calorie surplus = fat. Thats a fact. If you dont burn what you eat, its stored as fat. Hence why you should limit your calorie intake because having excess wont help you gain muscle. You can get all the energy from your carbs and so forth within a balanced diet which is what I have been saying
I (for one) never maintaned that it was - in fact, I specifically said that gaining a little fat is perfectly healthy and doesn't put the body at risk of organ failure etc (which at best is scaremongering). When you talk in extremes (like "a massive surplus of calories") then of course the discussion goes your way, because you are stating what is painfully obvious: OF COURSE an excessive surplus of calories is a bad thing; there is a difference between eating 500cals over your requirement, and 5000cals over your requirement. Duh. And again we are on the semantic merry-go-round: why should this guy's definition of bulking be correct? When I bulk, I eat to get big, not fat... these guys are eating to get big AND fat, which is gluttony (and there's no obfuscation there). Not disputing this... what I was saying is that dietary fat is not the same as stored fat. Seriously man, LOL.
I knew nuts were supposed to be a good source of protein but DAMN. Just got some pistachio nuts and seriously: 20g protein per 100g. I don't plan to stop using protein shakes but I am going to be eating more pistachios from now on. Anyway just wondering if either has any advantages apart from other nutritional content (carbs, fat) which I can just read off the label. Such as whether the protein in the nuts might be more readily absorbed and stuff like that.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kristi4.htm scroll down to the nut section for more nuts. more info http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/nutrientfood.php?food=1200
Correct, high protein high carb diet is the way to go for intense weight training. The workouts will draw down fat from the body anyway, but this is slow and time-consuming for the body versus calories in your diet. Constricting the calories will slow your progress.
Well progress as far as muscle training is concerned. Will revive this thread in the next three months.
Or don't, I was going to comment and discuss in here originally (because it interests me) but something about the subject of muscles seems to bring all of bit-tech's loudest and worst together. There's been an awful lot of poo flinging in this thread. The phrase 'roid rage' is tempting, but that would be trolling (and untrue for most - no roids required to be a dick on the internet).
This thread has stopped being informative. Think I'll go talk to a Personal Trainer for nutritional tips and help.
So then, did anyone stick at it? I have had a fair amount of success to be honest. Starting waist and weight of 40" and 15st. Current waist and weight of 32" and 13st. Lots more energy and feel better about everything in my life. Getting a bit of attention too
Yes mate, still bulking. Currently up to 175lbs ish and gained some good lean mass. or if any of you saw me at i44 last weekend Congrats on the weight loss too mate and also keeping up a good mentality, some people notice a bit of fatigue when losing weight and generally feel a little down but if you're keeping energy up that's fantastic. I know what you mean about the attention thing too ;-)
Dropped 6kilos. Slimmed down a bit, lost an inch off the waist (33/34-->32). Much more energetic. Still gotta get cut though.
The fatigue thing is by far my biggest issue. Find it harder to swim, can't run a far etc etc. Once I'm down to the weight I want, I'll start bulking. However, I'm also training to do the Birmingham Run next year and plan to complete it in under 2 hours.
