Cooling not too happy :/ (pics posted).. OK, happier now :D

ive tried the fans blowing through the rad but it made little difference to be honest. I might invest in some new fans. These are lovely until you attach them to a radiator

My vid card is bending but that picture makes it look a lot worse than it is

maybe a res would help get the air out? i was determined not to spend any more cash so i might make one out of cheese + varnish.... or whatever i have laying about

ok, I'll keep at it.. ATM im disapointed to say the least. It really is reassuring to be getting all this help though.. cheers guys

 

well I thought you might have solved one of my problems as the water in my system is the same colour. I also have added water wetter and uv dye but after a bios update my temp rocketed 15 degrees so when my temps jumped up to 44 degrees underload (seti) I was not happy. still everything is stable and the temps are constant but I did think they were going to be lower

 

waylander - what board, what bios? Check the changelog for the bios release version - it may have undergone compensation adjustment for the temp sensors, which is obviously going to throw you off.


Motherboard temp readings are sheer vanity in many cases.
You can only just rely on them to show improvement when using the same bios and exact same environment.
Change any one thing and you affect the comparison as a whole.

Regardless of this though, if you are experiencing the same symptoms as shown in monkeyspank's pics, it's fairly safe to say you need to address the prob too.
Mebbe a fresh thread with a pic would be in order so we can see what's going on (unless you have the exact same arrangement)?
...my telepathy's rusty these days.

 

right I will get a photo out tomorow as my digi cam is crap and it will only work well in good light.

As for the mobo its a Gigabyte GA7 NNXP running under Bios F13 (latest) like I said temp jumped 15degrees But I will start a new thred tomorrow morning BTW system is just running the water block at the moment.

 

Several issues here:
o Like with Like comparison
---- lots of opportunity here for confounding factors
---- plate-interface to pump-output to temp-measurement

o DC Tube-Axial fans, to be more correct are low static pressure
---- so your design of the radiator cooling system does matter

Critical aspects are:
o Intake
---- is it direct from the outside (coolest) air?
---- what is the smallest c/sectional area in the intake?
---- how long is the intake if ducted?
-------- PC fans are not good at overcoming static resistance
---- what separation of the fan from the intake & radiator
-------- over some range, temperature remains a constant
-------- however noise with vary very considerably
o Exhaust
---- same questions apply
---- ideally push-pull arrangement on a radiator
---- however, it comes down to blade design & *testing*

Redline Water Wetter (eg, SI-2) may help your system as the
tube colour suggests a potential problem. Also worth verifying
the cooling block itself flows correctly, and is clear of debris.

Remember...
o You are putting the same watts in
o You are using the same amount of cfm to cool

The difference comes down to thermal transfer,
and resistance of the radiator versus a heatsink.

Going to a higher static pressure fan (120x32 or 38mm) will
help airflow through the radiator - but it can also increase
noise from 1) airflow 2) turbulence 3) motor 4) bearings.

So you can hit the law of diminishing returns there.
You cite a 100cfm fan - even NMB aren't silent at 12V.

I think you need to check your thermal transfer at the CPU to
heatsink interface, then the radiator & fan cooling arrangement.
o You want direct easy-flowing air from the outside
o Vary the fan to radiator separation
o Use a pull fan the other side or two blow-thro fans in parallel

Before that, it may be worth checking your temperatures.
As someone said, a BIOS update can confuse matters

 

Can I just ask what colour should the tube be once the water wetter has been added?? Also I have taken Pugs advice and started a seperate thred you will find it here

 

I only know what I've read and seen about watercooling, but the T right after the pump's outlet seems a bit suspect in where it is.

And, it's filled with water.

At the bottom most area of flow.

Just looks like it's suckin' up some flow, that's all.

Maybe BEFORE the water goes into the pump?

 

it is right at the inlet of the pump. it seems to be doing its job. maybe slowly but its working. there is a bit of a bubble there now.
Those pictures were taken before i had even switched it on for the first time.

 

I've read most of the thread but not all, so I'm not sure if this has been suggested.

Try running the each of the LRWW outlets to one of the gpu/nb blocks, so they are effectively running in parallel. You will get less flow through each block but your overall system pressure drop will be reduced. This will put less strain on the pump, increase the flow rate, and maybe reduce cavitation.

Also, I don't think having that T fitting so close to the pump is helping. Pumps tend to perform better if they have a large diameter inlet, or maybe having the inlet plumbed directly into the bottom of an airtrap. (read through this article.)

Hope that helps

8-ball

 

OK, I've looked at your picture for some while and run the whole thing in my head...

Here are my thoughts:

I don't think the Y split makes a difference. It simply merges back two streams that were split up in the block, so there shouldn't be like trying to squeeze two seperate streams into one tube. Think of one lane of traffic splitting into two, then merging again. It's not the same as two lanes of traffic merging into one.

I do think however, that that is a big-ass radiator, and together with three blocks and all those sharp-ish U bends that accounts for one hell of a pressure drop. That pump looks way to puny to handle that, hence its temperature, and possibly, the cavitation causing that milk effect. Get yourself an Eheim, son.

But your blocks aren't all that warm to the touch. Bad mounting? I don't think so. I also think you got just sufficient (if not great) coolant flow going on there, but you may want to re-examine the airflow in your case. Here's why:

Your setup has, by the looks of it, one 80mm fan blowing in, and one 80mm fan, one PSU, and two 120mm fans blowing out. Your case is experiencing underpressure. Those rad fans basically may not be getting enough air out of the case, though the rad fins to do any cooling (sort of may explain the noise as well). Moreover, I can't imagine there being much airflow in the case and other components in your PC may be heating up more than when the whole thing was air-cooled. That, in fact, may be accounting for the instability...

But perhaps you're running the PC with the sides off. That should take care of the airflow issue. So, another possibility is to do with the fact that pumps tend not to be very clean about the power they suck. If the pump shares a powerpoint with the PSU, that can, very occasionally, cause stability issues due to interference. Especially with a hard-working pump like that. A top-grade PSU should compensate, but still.

BTW, I find that low noise, lower CFM fans running at 12V basically sound better than high CFM fans throttled back to 7V.

 

Nexxo, im glad you said that about the Y cos i was thinking the same thing... the flow in the 2 outlet pipes is half the flow elsewhere no? but this doesnt matter cos it merges back before going to another block. The onl way it could introdce air is if there was a leak there..

i was going to get an eheim 1250 but after reading up as muchas possible i found the L30 to perform about the same but is smaller.

I know theres a problem with my NB block so i might take it out. I was getting much higher FSBs with the stock cooler (as it was out of the box). I was getting 215 stable, where as now im pushing 180. It looks like a flow killer as well so it might end up in my drawer. Im going to try my stock cooler again + see how i get on with that.

Ive just set my fans onto 12V and the cpu temp has dropped by about 8º C while idling loud though.. i think i might invest in some slower ones can you recommend any?

My T peice keeps on collecting air so it's doing its job. im not using water wetter next time cos im sure it is contributing to the water colour.

thanks for the input everyone, I'm feeling better about the whole thing now

 

I'm glad that things are starting to work out a bit for you. First, for the 120mm fans I'd recommend the Panaflo 12G12L; practically noiseless. If you want a bit more oomph (86 CFM) at slightly more noise (34 dB ish) the Panaflo 12G12M. Run them at 12V. Clear some space under the rad (looks blocked by a drive) to promote airflow.

I would also either replace the 80mm intake fan of the case with a 120mm fan, or add another 80mm fan. I find Panaflos again very good for this job.

As for your perilously bending graphic card, get a "Cardkeeper" to support it; find models :here:. They are not sold in the UK, unfortunately, and only Directron sells them in the US. But like me you can try to approach the manufacturer directly.

I would also re-think the tubing a bit. It is a cramped case, true, but I have managed to squeeze a dual CPU setup in a Lian-Li of similar size (see project "Metaversa" in the project logs). See if you can get rid of some bends. Get the Z block out, and put in a Zalman passive heatsink; they are really quite efficient and out-perform stock coolers with fans!

 

Fair comment.
I guess I was picturing a three-lane motorway splitting into six lanes (or two lots of three), then after a distance, merging back imto three.
Messy, eh? 'Specially if all the cars are doing the kind of speed that a 1250 would impart.

I could be wrong but I'm thinking that the mass of turbulence under high flow conditions will possibly create enough back pressure that the pump will cavitate.
I'm not thinking it will introduce air from a leak monkeyspank, I'm thinking it will be as a result of suction cavitation, as described here.
Side note:- Ooh, what a good pump information resource I just found.

As I think I said originally, it's only a theory - it's tough to work out just based on a photo.
After reading that you'd let the sytem settle for 10 hours and it was still the same appearance, I'm wondering if that's actually the colour of your coolant or hoses even (especially after waylander's posts too).

I know certain hose types may be more prone to staining than others but I wouldn't have expected it to occur quite that quickly.
This was a fresh setup, wasn't it?

8-Ball - Hi, btw, long time no see.
It's a thought but it might be slightly dodgy if the flow resistances aren't well matched.
Worth a try if you can monitor temps and/or flow on both branches though, I s'pose.

 

this thread is not very reassuring for me, as i have many of the watercooling components (which are expensive and considered to be high quality) that monkeyspank has. i hope that when i get to the point where i test my system for the first time, nothing like this happens! needless to say i will be keeping my eye on this thread.

this is even making me consider scrapping northbride watercooling... which is not good since i already shelled out the $40 for a dtek block

 

thanks again people, really appreciate the help.

m3rcy-kill... you should have more faith if I was you, knowing what i know now, i would still stick to my original plans. See how it goes. If things arent too peachy after you set up, worry about it then.

One thing - i wouldnt recommend water wetter if you dont want the milky colouration. Here are some before and after pics...

BEFORE


AFTER

 

Hi mate, how's things. It has been a long time hasn't it. My laptop broke so I had no way of connecting at my dad's, and my sister ran off with my mum's laptop, so I was up a certain creek needing a paddle as far as getting on the net was concerned. But I'm back at uni now, and I should have quite a bit more free time in the evenings from now on, so I'll be getting back into the swing of things.

I've emailed cathar re the effects of having unbalanced flow through the LRWW. Hopefully he should get back fairly soon. I will post his advice when I get it.

Nexxo,

It is my understanding, that if the blocks are NOT warm to the touch, then the large temperature difference between the coolant and the cpu, is more associated with the thermal interface between the block and the core than the interface between the block and the coolant.

If the coolant wasn't doing it's job then the blocks would be warm.

Monkeyspank

If it is the case that the blocks aren't warm to the touch, definitely consider remounting them. (unless I'm wrong here - anyone?)

Please keep us updated.

8-ball

 

m3rcy_kill

I don't know for sure, but having looked at the two designs in the past, I would be inclined to say that the D-Tek northbridge block is less restrictive than the Z-block from dangerden.

Monkey spank.

I don't think you mentioned which tubing you are using, but if it is flexible, it may be worth replacing some of the fittings, the y and the T in particular, with the next size up from 1/2". This sould help keep a constant internal diameter through the fittings.

Also, did you read the article I linked to. There is some very useful information there about getting the best out of your pump.

8-ball

 

wow, that is an excellent article!
a must read for watercoolers...

 

Really useful article there. thanks for that 8-Ball.
It will be really interesting to hear Cathars take on the outlet pipes. In the meantime I think a remount is in order.

This was a brand new setup last weekend using Tygon tubing. It should be flexible enough to squeeze larger Y + T fitting into. I'll try to find some

I tried using a zalman heatsink before. It didnt really do a brilliant job, i found the stock cooler to be better. I think i'll give it another try though, this time I will mount it on the Z-chip posts to see if that helps at all. If not i will try the stock cooler again. Depending on how i get on i will decide whether to take the Z chip out of the loop to increase the flow to the rest of the system.. I'l play about a bit tonight and let you know how i get on.

I really appreciate all the help/comments fella's. thanks again

 

Er... I thought that's what I said? But I discounted bad mounting because I gather Monkeyspank has re-seated the blocks several times already. I mean, he's bound to have got it right eventually. My money's on the lack of air flow through the rad, and the case. Throttling up the fans appearing to drop the temps by 8 degrees seems to corroborate that.

My argument is also that instability can be caused by other factors, such as overheating of mobo components due to bad case ventilation, (overworked) pump interference etc.