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A64 Overclocking

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Tomm, 6 Oct 2004.

  1. Tomm

    Tomm I also ride trials :¬)

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    Having a bit of trouble with this beast.

    The RAM's holding the memory back, as it has a maximum speed of around 210MHz FSB. So, I can set a divider to keep the RAM at a proportion of the FSB. So I set the RAM divider @ 5/6 (166MHz) and upped the FSB to try and see what my 3200+ A64 can do. It'll run at 215MHz FSB, but the RAM's only actually at 179. Which gives a SuperPi time of 44s, exactly the same as it is at stock (200FSB, 200RAM). So that's no improvement. However, my RAM is not holding the system back at this speed, so it's all down to the CPU.

    Here's the problem: I can't set the FSB any higher than 215MHz. This is at stock volts ("Auto" in the BIOS). I'm a bit confused as to what to put for the voltage, because it fluctuates between 1.075v and 1.5v, due to Cool 'n' Quiet. Anyway, what sort of voltage can/should I put through this chip (It's a newcastle core)? It must be capable of more than 2365MHz?

    If it means anything to anyone, the stepping is this:
    ADA3200AEP4AX
    CBASC 0413MPM
    4409634E40370


    [​IMG]


    Thanks!
     
  2. DanMcr

    DanMcr What's a Dremel?

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    Well, its a CG so i would have thought more is in there.
    Turn cool n quiet off for one thing. Ive heard a lot of people say that when they drop the muliplyer and push up the HTT, when cool n quiet kicks in, it raises the multi back up to max the chip can do. Which with a big HTT overclock on top of it, can be dodgy to say the least.

    Drop the multi to 10x, and start pushing the HTT/FSB and see how far you get.
    Id raise the CPU vcore to 1.65v aswell.

    Also, make sure that the HT multi is set so it nevers goes over 800mhz. (At least i think its 800 for your board) So drop it to 3x if your raising the FSB/HTT.

    Shuttles use different names for things in the bios though IIRC, like LDT and stuff like that so dont go looking for things im saying to the letter. (I am right in thinking you have a shuttle?)

    I dont know how it works out for shuttles, but i know that my board (939) and cpu need pretty beefy PSU's for decent overclocking.
    Also, your CPU is gonna start to get pretty toasty aswell, so you might have to compromise a fair bit.
     
  3. Austin

    Austin Minimodder

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    :confused: The multiplier is locked on all but the FX Athlon64 isn't it? Running the RAM slower than 'FSB' is never a good idea, but then neither is judging perf with something as hopelessly synthetic as SuperPi. 2.37ghz may be all you get as many 130nm Athlon64 tend to top out around this speed. Adding more voltage will place your components under higher risk and produce more heat so be sure cooling is fine before going that route. 1.50v stock would suggest 1.60v to 1.65v MAX for anyone who isn't a hardcore o/c'er or plain reckless. I'd suggest adding a touch more voltage (eg +0.05v) and see if that gets you anything extra, if not then repeat until either 1.60v or 1.65v (I'd say the former). As always with voltage weigh up the extra gain in perf with the potential harm and heat it causes.
     
  4. DanMcr

    DanMcr What's a Dremel?

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    The multiplyer is unlocked for all athlon64's in the downward direction only. Unless you have an FX. Its to do with CoolnQuiet. When idle it drops the multi to 5x and the volts to around 1.

    Running the ram with dividers doesnt harm performance really. Not like it does on AXP systems. But still, id always run 1:1 if possible.

    I think the main reason your not getting any higher than 215HTT is becasue of the HT multi still being set at 4x. This is clocking the HT frequency at 860 with a 215HTT, which is not good as it its only rated @ 800.

    Even on 939 boards with 1000mhz HT, they dont like going over it.
     
  5. DickH

    DickH What's a Dremel?

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    have you tried changing your ram timmings? I couldnt get to 2.4ghz without changing the timmings. Now I can run my 3500+ at 2.5ghz with the ram at 3-3-3-5. Im thinking the ram is holding the oc back, my goal was 2.6, but looking arround, im just fine with 2.5.
     
  6. Austin

    Austin Minimodder

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    :thumb: DanMcr, of course! Thanks for the heads up. DickH that makes a lot of sense, due to the integrated memory controller it's not just making it easier to push the 'FSB' (HT) but the CPU too. 64_3500+ @2.5ghz, that's awesome.
     
  7. Tomm

    Tomm I also ride trials :¬)

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    Cheers for all the input, although I'm not sure what all the terms mean. Yeah, I do have a shuttle, and I've not seen any of those options in the BIOS :sigh:
    Also I don't think C'n'Q is controlled by the BIOS, I'm pretty sure it's in the windows power config for me, I've not seen any BIOS options anyway.

    HTT being hypertransport? Again, I don't think there's an option in the BIOS for that, but I'll have a hunt. Where would I find the bus speed from, I can't see anything in CPU-Z?

    Yeah, the timings didn't make any difference, nor did increasing vDimm. Not tried relaxing the timings with the RAM at this (slower) speed, there surely shouldn't be any need?


    Anyway, thanks again :)
     
  8. DanMcr

    DanMcr What's a Dremel?

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    Hmm,

    Gonna need more info on your bios mate before i can offer any help.
    Any way you can do a brief outline of the menu's and options you have, aswel as what your current settings are?

    Cheers,

    Dan.
     
  9. Tomm

    Tomm I also ride trials :¬)

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    Erm, well as far as I can remember, it's a standard phoenix BIOS, blue screen, a few options etc. In fact just like every BIOS I've ever used.

    I'll make a list later, I'm not at my PC at the moment. I'll edit this. Cheers for the interest though :)
     
  10. Tomm

    Tomm I also ride trials :¬)

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  11. DanMcr

    DanMcr What's a Dremel?

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    Right,

    LDT is set at 3x so i guess that rules that out.

    Under frequencies & voltage:
    Change the CPU ratio select to 10x.
    Change the CPU voltage to 1.6v or whatever you feel comfortable trying.
    (This will make the temps increase, so be careful, shuttles havent got the greatest cooling in the world)

    Under advance chipset features:
    Change the clock spread spectrum to disabled.
    Change to "AGP Overclock" to 67mhz. (Sounds daft i know, but my mobo doesnt lock the AGP when its set to 66mhz, you have to set it to 67 to lock it at that, seems to be an issue with MSI boards, but you never know)

    Under RAM Settings:
    Change Max Mem Clock to 166. (This is 5:4 ratio) Assuming you are overclocking Async.
    Try setting the 1T/2T Mem timing to 1T. I dunno what its setting it at on Auto. 1T might work, it may not, depends on your RAM. You can but try.

    The cpu should now be running at 10x200 = 2ghz. (I knew maths would come in handy one day :D)

    Now, start to increase the "CPU Overclock" in the advanced chipset menu. Id try 220 as a start, that should get you back to normal. Make sure everything is stable etc. Then try a bit more and so on.

    I think it would be best though before trying any of this, trying to figure out how to disable CoolnQuiet. Can you do it in windows via power management? I think for it to work, windows has to have it set at least on Minimum Power management profile. At least thats the case with my mobo. Have a play and check via CPU-Z to make sure its still at 200x11 when idle.
    As i said before, you dont want to start upping the HTT ("CPU Overclock" in your case) and then have CoolnQuiet kick the CPU ratio back up to 11x.


    Thats pretty much all i can suggest at the moment. Take things easy though, you dont want to go whacking through things like a ham fisted Tw@t. :D
     
  12. Tomm

    Tomm I also ride trials :¬)

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    Thanks for the reply :D

    I believe I have switched off C'n'Q (Changed the power profile to desktop instead of laptop in control panel), and CPU-Z now shows the multi at a constant 11, and the voltage is now a stable 1.5v. So I think we're sorted on that front.

    I think you may have discovered the problem, I didn't have any AGP divider on. So i'll sort that.

    The one thing I don't understand is the RAM 1t/2t thing. What's that mean? :eyebrow:

    Basically, I'll have a play and get back to you :)

    Oh, and the temps for me shuttle are just dandy, much better than A-XP anyway. (That's if the onboard temp. sensor is to be believed)


    Cheers for the pointers :)
     
  13. DanMcr

    DanMcr What's a Dremel?

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    The 1T/2T Mem timing is the command/cycle rate for the RAM. Bandwidth is greatly decreased if your using the 2T setting, but the whole point the setting is there, is that some RAM gets unstable at 1T. My RAM doesnt like 1T, it doesnt boot XP. Like i said, try it and see.
    Id try it on its own 1st though. That way if it doesnt like it, you know what the problem is, if you've gone through and changed a load of other settings at the same time, it makes it harder to track down whats giving you issues etc.
     
  14. Tomm

    Tomm I also ride trials :¬)

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    Been taking your advice to the letter and now I seem to have a stable overclock. I'm off to Prime95 it now.

    For some reason, it didn't work at 10x multiplier. It booted up fine, but it was being real slow, so I checked Cpu-Z and it said that the multi was set @ 5x. Which is quite bizarre. Anyway, I set the multi back to 11x and it's all good. I suppose I can test the FSB @ 5x multi to see how much the motherboard can take, and then when I find that point, change the multi to 11 :)
     
  15. DanMcr

    DanMcr What's a Dremel?

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    It does seem odd indeed. It also sounds like a CoolnQuiet problem, as that drops the multi to 5x.

    What model shuttle do you have? After a brief search, it seems as though some shuttles have difficulty with Cool n Quiet. (AN50R for example is unreliable with multiple MEM sticks and CNQ, although this could be old info)

    Also, have a look for a new bios for your model. If you read the "fix list" it might tell you if any CNQ issues have been sorted out.

    You can test the FSB using a low multi yes, but be careful hammering the multi back up. Ive had a quick play on mine and can get the HTT/FSB well over 300. But, if i whacked the multi back up to 11x, i seriously doubt my CPU could handle +3.3ghz. Although it would be nice. :D
    Ive seen a few 3500+ up around 2.7-2.8 on water, and as soon as i decide on a graphics card, thas what im aiming for.
     
  16. Tomm

    Tomm I also ride trials :¬)

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    Yar, that's what I thought. Dunno what to do about it though. The BIOS is the newest one available on the shuttle website, unless there are others somewhere else? It's an SN85G4 (V2) :)


    Hmmm, I know what you're saying, but for some reason it failed Prime95, so I'm not sure how much is left in it to be honest. Unless I've got a dodgy stick of memory, or timings that are slightly too tight. Doesn't show up in memtest though. I'm about to try Prime @ stock speeds (Where the RAM is actually running faster (200) than in my overclocked setup), to see if it is the RAM at fault :)

    I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the help :)
     
  17. Shepps

    Shepps Slacking off since 1986..

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    The most i've ever been able to get out of my SN85G4 is 215fsb, so thats 2.3Ghz. That wasn't very stable tho. Shuttles just arn't the best for overclocking unfortunatly.
     
  18. henson0115

    henson0115 Banned

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    this should come in handy for me as i want to try and overclock mine when i get home if i put all my bios setings chip names ect could you help me overclock mine a bit more thanks shane sorry for thread hijack good look in o/cing
     

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