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Other Airsoft, it's not a real gun!

Discussion in 'General' started by legoman, 15 Jul 2012.

  1. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Depends - A lot of guys at my local site bought two-toners and have added to them with metal bodies etc after they've got their UKARA sorted out. Although, yes, you're right that he's not mentioned that he's UKARA registered.

    I must confess, even I didn't read the UKARA form when I registered with the scheme - But I had been following the whole thing from the start anyway.
     
  2. Ending Credits

    Ending Credits Bunned

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    Is it actually against the law to own a RIF? I thought it was just against the law to sell them.
     
  3. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    If you owned a RIF before the VCRA came into force, it's not illegal to keep it. It would be illegal to sell it, however - and it's illegal to modify an IF to make it into a RIF (i.e. by spray painting it or adding accessories like silencers and grips that bring a non-approved colour to 50% or more) regardless, with the usual exceptions (UKARA, approved theatrical/re-enactment use, MOD purchase.)

    EDIT: And having a two-tone gun indicates it was purchased *after* VCRA as prior to that they were rarely available in the UK, with single-coloured RIFs being far more common. I'm not saying that the OP's gun was *definitely* purchased after the VCRA came into force - just that it's more likely than not.
     
    Last edited: 16 Jul 2012
  4. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    VCR changed the whole thing back in 2007.

    As far as I'm aware, you were okay if you bought things before October 2007 (When the bill passed), and after that you needed to be 18 to buy one, and either buy it 51% bright colours (There are five or six colours), or be registered with UKARA to use the "Skirmisher" defence and get away with no neon colourings on the gun.

    Those are, as far as I'm aware (Layman!) the only requirements for owning a RIF these days.
     
  5. [ZiiP] NaloaC

    [ZiiP] NaloaC Multimodder

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    Ah, the joys of living on a farm and being able to go outside and let loose 200 rounds on my ruger and not have to worry.

    Now, that in mind, when I bought my Ruger 10/22, I got a suppressor for it for 2 main reasons;
    1) Not to scare the deer on the farm.
    2) Not to piss my neighbours (at least 600m in any direction from where I shoot) due to the sound of me plinking.

    It pays to take others into consideration, so the diplomatic approach is the most sensible.

    A neighbour of ours lets people from town come on to his land to shoot clay and it is the most annoying thing on a nicely lazy sunday to have 6 people who can't hit a barn door letting rip with a bunch of shotguns. 6, sometimes even 8 hours of boom Boom boom boom Boom boom will do anyones head in. Freaks the deer out, dogs go mental and drives me up the wall. Neighbour has been understanding about it, but the guys that go there don't give a toss and keep being inconsiderate pricks.

    Hope you find an amicable resolution for all this OP.
     
  6. LennyRhys

    LennyRhys Fan Fan

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    Contrary to what is said above, UKARA is not a legal requirement concerning the purchase of RIF - it just so happens that the vast majority of airsoft retailers find the UKARA system to work best which is why they adopt that policy, and hence why it's nigh impossible to purchase a RIF from a retailer without being a registered skirmisher. Thousands of skirmishers are not UKARA registered and they get their RIFs from their local shops; the transactions are based on reputation alone and are wholly legitimate.

    It is because of UKARA that I gave up collecting airsoft replicas and decided to move to air rifles: I don't need to be a regular (or registered) skirmisher, and my gun doesn't need to be covered in some ridiculous fluorescent paint.
     
  7. Ending Credits

    Ending Credits Bunned

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    This is my impression of the situation.
     
  8. Jipa

    Jipa Avoiding the "I guess.." since 2004

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    Jesus christ.. And with all those laws people are still trying to have airsoft as a hobby in the UK? Kudos to you, I would have given up ages ago :wallbash:

    Yeah not constructive, but so isn't much of this thread.

    Keep them balls on your own property and expect the cops to come anyway - if the neighbor really got upset about a single pellet, chances are he/she's going to find a reason to call the coppers anyway.
     
  9. Fishlock

    Fishlock .o0o.

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    Unless your neighbour tells the Police you're firing a real gun it's unlikely that armed response would turn up. Chances are your local Officer of response Officer would turn up some hours after you had called in, take some brief details and advise you of the law accordingly. There's not enough Police or time in the day to start seizing an imitation firearm and testing it's muzzle felocity for the sake of a pellet accidentally falling into next doors garden. That is unless you start taking the piss.

    I would however take everyone else's advice and try to speak to your neighbours and come to a good resolution. I fully appreciate that this isn't a simple task, however it should make everyone that bit happier and more understanding.
     
  10. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

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    Well, spoken with Mr plod actually went in showed them an image of the "projectile firing device" and a handful of the projectiles. They are fine with it and have added me to some kind of list.

    With relation to the stray projectile i went round after work today to apologise and spoke to an elderly lady apparently the person shouting abuse at me was her son in law. She's apologised profusely and asked if she can come over to see what im doing and if i can shoot the cats which come into our gardens, ive said no to that for obvious reasons though.
    Her son in law is some kind of anti violence activist but shes going to try and keep him under control.
    Happyish ending just need to watch out for the son in law :s

    Also as yet im not UKARA registered but im planning to be soon as i get the time to do a few games with some guys from work who got me into it.
     
  11. Ending Credits

    Ending Credits Bunned

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    Anti-violence activist who comes round and harasses someone for engaging in a harmless hobby...
     
  12. Krazeh

    Krazeh Minimodder

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    As far as i'm aware the VCRA makes no mention about the ownership of RIFs or IFs and provides no basis under which the police could seize or destroy a RIF or IF simply on the basis of ownership. It's perfectly legal for someone to own a RIF regardless of their status as a 'skirmisher' or having a number registered with UKARA.

    Given that the VCRA regulates the sale, rather than the purchase, of RIFs it'd be the shop who'd be in trouble. The only time it's an offence under the VCRA to purchase a RIF is if you're under 18. Anyone under 18 can buy a RIF legally, the only question is if the seller can sell it legally.

    Or he could leave it exactly as it is, what with there being no law preventing him from owning it.
     
  13. BRAWL

    BRAWL Dead and buried.

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    The requirements for a .22 rifle do state that pellets shouldn't leave your garden. However an airsoft rifle is not a .22 rifle and as such MAY not comply with that.

    You are allowed to own your airsoft rifle and if the Police did come to the door with it you can say "I own an airsoft rifle that complies with current gun laws." If they want to see it they are more than welcome but don't bloody give it to them.

    You can fire that in your back-garden and if you're neighbour gets angry... please feel free to print off this little snippet from Wikipedia (Including the beautifully placed link for them)

    Code:
    There are currently certain restrictions on the possession of airsoft replicas, which came in with the introduction of the ASBA (Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003) Amendments, prohibiting the possession of any firearms replica in a public place without good cause (to be concealed in a gun case or container only not to be left in view of public at any time). The prohibition of self-contained gas cartridge firearms can arguably apply to Moscarts and BB-Shower grenade systems, although it is intended to ban the sale of 'brocock' cartridge revolvers. However, a formal case precedent has yet to be set.
    According to Section 36 of the VCRA (Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006), which came into effect on 1 October 2007, RIF's (Realistic Imitation Firearms) may not be sold, imported or manufactured.[14] Unrealistic imitation firearms (IF's) must be more than 50% transparent, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright blue, bright green, bright pink or bright purple or have dimensions of no more than a height of 38 millimetres and a length of 70 millimetres (as defined in the Home Office regulations for the VCRA). Defences to the act are available for the following:
    a museum or gallery
    theatrical performances and rehearsals of such performances
    the production of films and television programmes
    the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments
    crown servants.[15]
    The notes for the VCRA state the following: "The regulations provide for two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft skirmishing. This is defined by reference to "permitted activities" and the defence applies only where third party liability insurance is held in respect of the activities." and "The defence for airsoft skirmishing can apply to individual players because their purchase of realistic imitation firearms for this purpose is considered part of the "holding" of a skirmishing event."[16]
    The airsoft defence is based on whether or not a person is a skirmisher. One of the measures put in place by retailers was the forming of a centrally recorded and maintained database. This system is managed by the United Kingdom Airsoft Retailers Association or UKARA. UKARA shares the database of registered skirmishers with the member retailers allowing quick and easy verification that the purchaser is allowed to buy a RIF under the VCRA skirmisher defence. To qualify for the UKARA database a person must be a regular skirmisher (i.e. skirmish three or more times in no less than two months, and typically at one site) in order to be registered and the airsoft site they register/skirmish at must hold public Public Liability Insurance.
    As long as a person can prove that they are an airsoft skirmisher, they may purchase RIFs. This can be done successfully by either joining the UKARA database (although this is not a legal requirement, and as such, is not recognised by the Home Office as having any legal authority over airsoft skirmishers) or other means, such as ordering a RIF from outside the UK and ensuring the parcel is marked in such a fashion that if Customs were to stop the parcel they can check the purchaser's validity to purchase said RIF.
    Airsoft is not prohibited to persons under the age of 18, nor is owning a RIF, although the only way they are able to obtain a RIF or IF is by being given the item as a gift or by having parental consent.
    Owning any airsoft weapon be it RIF or IF is prohibited to said persons if they are under the age of 18, be it by parental consent or by a gift however if someone under the age of 18 attempts to purchase an airsoft weapon, it is considered a felony and may result in a fine.
    
    If you're under 18 - more fool you.
     
  14. Dave Lister

    Dave Lister Minimodder

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    It's illegal to have even a replica gun now without a license, you might get away with it because of the orange bits though. I got charged by the police a couple years ago for having a water pistol that looked like a 9mm Glock, almost went to prison for it until someone realized how dumb that would be !.
     
  15. Krazeh

    Krazeh Minimodder

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    No it's not.

    What exactly were you doing with the water pistol? I very much doubt you were charged for simply owning it.
     
  16. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Great news - and I'm glad you got it sorted with your neighbour!
    The VCRA counts all air weapons the same, regardless of power or calibre. Air weapons under 1 joule (i.e. airsoft) get exemptions from certain aspects, but the rule on pellets needing to stay out of neighbouring properties are the same.
    Except if an item is sold illegally, its possession is illegal too. A while back, a major chain of shops imported some cheap walking sticks from China and sold them to the public. Somebody wondered why his stick was rattling, twisted the handle - and withdrew a three-foot sword. Obviously, the retailer was committing an offence by selling these items to the public (sword-sticks being illegal in the UK,) but the buyers were also committing an offence if they kept the items. Likewise an illegal RIF: the seller commits an offence under the VCRA by selling it, which makes the sale null and void - meaning the buyer needs to give the RIF up for destruction.
     
  17. Brooxy

    Brooxy Loser of the Game

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    Replica Imitation Firearms. Actually, as the OP has a two-tone, I think it just falls under 'Imitation Firearm"
     
  18. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    Commonly known as "toys". :D

    If the proper term is "Imitation Firearm" then great, everyone should use that. Unfortunately, not everyone does. I'll go ahead and speak for Spec and say that the issue isn't the legal definition, it's the commonly used term "gun". The term "Imitation Firearm" clearly means that it is not a firearm: it is an imitation. Of what? A firearm in this case, but that's just a detail to better describe it. What are imitation items commonly used and referred to as? Toys.

    The term "gun" would be looking at the situation completely backwards. It follows the idea that the item is a firearm first and foremost, and that its being an imitation is a sub category of firearms. This is misleading and untrue, you could not accurately call it a "firearm" without including "imitation". This mislabelling is particularly damaging as well as it relates a device created to be relatively safe (and indeed fired at persons wearing proper protective gear) to lethal weapons designed to kill other living creatures.
     
  19. Brooxy

    Brooxy Loser of the Game

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    Heh, I was thinking more for those that didn't want to call it a toy. Despite then being called "toys" within some legislation as mentioned earlier.

    Personally I prefer referring to them RIFs or imitation firearms.

    Mainly for the potential Darwin award collectors to think twice before picking one up and staring down the business end straight away with no eye protection.
     
  20. Dave Lister

    Dave Lister Minimodder

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    Perhaps it only illegal in a public place then, I cant remember exactly now. And I wasn't doing anything at all with it. I was actually lying unconscious on a country road after a car accident at night. The "imitation firearm" had been in the boot of the car and must have been thrown out when the car crashed.

    The laws can be very subjective and vary from county to county. I was told I should have had a permit for it, but being a water pistol that didn't even occur to me plus i'd owned it for about 10 years without any hassle.

    Moral of the story is don't trust the cops ! even if your innocent they will try and pin something on you if you have used up any of there time.
     

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