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Bloke fined for speed camera warning

Discussion in 'Serious' started by hellblazer.doom, 9 Jan 2011.

  1. nukeman8

    nukeman8 What's a Dremel?

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    Similar to having a device that lets you listen to police chatter to see if any are nearby - ooo wait that would be illegal. :D
    Anyway i can see your point, 1 man doing his best not to get caught is fine, a man helping someone else to not get caught is wrong.

    In the ever famous brick throwing situation its more like a man see's the police on the look out for trouble down a street, a line of men walk past with bricks in there hands. He warns them all of the police just incase they are not building a wall but have other plans by fluttering his eyelids.
    The police them nab him for warning these potential brick throwers of them.

    So the police don't actually need to prove that anyone was actually going to commit a crime, just more of a 'just in case they', a preemptive strike so to speak.
     
  2. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

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    the difference between a device that lets you hear police chatter (radio receiver) and a device that detects speed cameras, is that detection of a signal is not illegal, but recieving a signal that is not meant for you is.
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    As RichCreedy says, police chatter is confidential. It does not fall under freedom of information like knowing where speed cameras are.

    Your analogy is again flawed. The police is trying to catch brick throwers in the act. If you go around warning people who are winding up their bricks for a throw, you are in the ****. Now you can reasonably argue that the police has to be able to prove that the brick carriers were not just, like, carrying bricks. But if they were just carrying bricks, why would you feel the need to warn them? Regardless of the brick carriers' motives, the very act of you warning them of police presence proves that you thought they might be about to commit a crime, and your intention to prevent them from getting caught in the act. That is why you get busted. What the brick carriers actually did or intended is not relevant here.
     
  4. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I don't understand the argument that it's okay to speed to overtake.

    If you need to break the limit set for that road to over take, then surely you were already going close to the limit, and therefore had as good as no reason to overtake anyway?

    Sure, if there's a farm vehicle going twenty in a forty then you'd be well within your right to overtake, but I've been overtaken on a snowy day on a blind corner, travelling at barely ten miles an hour under the speed limit (Blind corner, on a road frequently used by farm vehicles, seemed reasonable to slow down a touch).

    Makes me wonder, is all.

    As for the OT, IMO, he did break a law. Obstruction of justice.

    Because of his actions, someone may well have got away with breaking the law, whether they did or not, he's lucky he only got fined (Although, I do find the amount to be excessive).
     
  5. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    I was thinking about that but I think that only applies to the mobile camera vans, not the radar detector guns the traffic police use.
     
  6. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    Speed cameras do not work in bringing down the speed anymore than public CCTV cameras work in preventing crimes.

    If the "police" wanted to keep the pace on the roads down they would spend time driving on those roads showing themselves, that's the only thing that works.


    Speed cameras are money making machines for the state!


    I don't know how many of you have driven a good mid-range car and I don't know how many of you have driven a German car. Once you have you will come to see that driving at 60 miles an hour is like standing still!

    One could argue that modern roads (unless you're in Germany, France or Italy) have not been able to match the performance and comfort of our modern cars. Forced to drive at 60 miles an hour, on a good road, in a modern car, make for little sense.


    Lastly:
    I remember a time when there were no speed cameras or CCTV (public) cameras around.

    Good times, sane times.:thumb:



    Edit:
    The driver warning the oncoming traffic of the speed camera committed no crime.
     
    Last edited: 11 Jan 2011
  7. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    Speed cameras DO NOT make money that has been proven most eloquently by the fact they have been shut down once the funding from them stops. Hell even Jeremy Clarkson king of the petrol heads admits they serve a purpose and don't make any money. The tax bill from a larger SME probably brings in more that the £30m or so generated by speed cameras annually, this is very small potatoes to a government who can afford to spend billions on a couple of miles of road.

    Just becuase you feel like your standing still doesn't mean that it'll feel that way when you slip of the road in your German car and into a tree or into an on coming car becuase you feel that the car in front is going to slow. Its moronic attitudes like the one you've voiced that give VAG/BMW drivers their reputation.

    I'm sure the police would like to do nothing better than drive around all day, its not like there is any real crime that can't be solved by sticking a camera up and expecting people to behave like adults...

    The driver of the on coming car, has as been discussed committed a violation of the highway code, go read it.
     
    Last edited: 11 Jan 2011
  8. nukeman8

    nukeman8 What's a Dremel?

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    Aye that is to true, when the funding for speed cameras gets left down to the local council they often get taken down or reduced.

    Which is exactly what happened to the man in question no?
     
  9. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    As a little addendum to this, a thought. Why is it that >2500 people die on the roads ever year but people accept that as a thing that happens yet a quarter of that number (650) are murdered every year and there is an out cry. CID murder likely squads cost significantly more than speed cameras and no one bats an eyelid at the cost but speed cameras are there to make money :rolleyes:

    Equally when a car drives into a tree and kills all occupants there is a minor investigation but when a helicopter does the same there is an expensive time consuming investigation.
     
  10. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    It's much more accurate to say, that the accused was actually communicating to someone to not speed temporarily as there's a speed camera up ahead, and once the device created to deter speeding on our roads has been passed, then the lucky speeder can continue to break the law, speeding without consequence.

    He was only telling someone not to commit a crime for the moment to avoid getting caught, then they are free to continue throwing bricks or whatever.
     
  11. nukeman8

    nukeman8 What's a Dremel?

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    All this from flashing his lights :D
     
  12. hellblazer.doom

    hellblazer.doom What's a Dremel?

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    All this is irrelevent.

    As preveiously stated in this topic, for all what you said to ring true, you would have to prove the oncoming traffic was speeding, which you can't do. As i have said all along, this man has legally done nothing wrong. The only thing you could do him for is flashing his lights and that is a distraction to other road users warning them of a hazard and i'm not even sure if that is an offence in itself as the only thing stated in the highway code is hazard lights for warning people of a hazard. If they can do you for flashing your lights and saying it distracts other road users I don't know. But what ever it was it certainly wasnt what they said it was.
     
  13. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    I never said they made money.

    I said they been put there to make money for the state. Hence the term "money making machines for the state" weather they "make" money or not are beside the point, the intentions of these cameras are not to enforce any laws or to improve safety. Because as pointed out, they do not work.

    Furthermore, for it to be considered policiary work the police have to be on the spot, in the field, and in case of speed cameras they are not.

    Let me clarify by saying that I'm talking about stationary speed cameras. Not mobile ones.

    Hence my previous point of police spending time out on the road.
    A: To slow the pace down.
    B: To conduct policiary work.

    Speed cameras do not conduct policiary work, the stationary kind, which makes for them yet another surveillance system.

    I stand by my statement that the driver committed no crime and it will stand until you, or someone else, shows me a law which states otherwise.

    Better yet, show me a case in court which enforced that "law".

    I would argue that the driver prevented a crime from taking place and perhaps even an accident, most often police will put themselves on stretches of roads which are prone of accidents.


    Yes, one could perhaps argue that I am "perverting" the "law"!!!
     
    Last edited: 11 Jan 2011
  14. memeroot

    memeroot aged and experianced

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    It's a farce...

    Nexxo

    "Your TomTom is an extention of that (after all, you do slow down, don't you? Job done"

    doesn't exactly tally with your prior remarks - the tom tom is exactly the man telling you a bobby is nearby

    regarding speed camera's in general - the more the better as it keeps the bobbies off the speed duty (and we know where they are - thanks tom tom) bargain.

    btw - a good example is that it is illegal to walk in front of a traffic warden putting coins into meters
     
  15. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    Yes, exactly.

    I bet you and everyone else in this thread are all smart enough to know, that if someone in the oncoming traffic flashes their lights at you, you'll look around thinking that this is what they are warning you about, and most people would instantly put a foot on the brake, especially if they knew they were speeding.

    [/captain obvious]
     
  16. nukeman8

    nukeman8 What's a Dremel?

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    but people flash you to warn you of a speed trap if you are speeding or not, you cant tell what his intentions or motives were just by a flash of lights.
     
  17. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    They could also be flashing their lights if an oncoming car uses full beam, as a way to notify the oncoming driver.

    I suppose that goes without saying, but I thought I mention it anyways.
     
  18. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    OK, if there actually was some sort of hazard, such as roadworks or someone about to cross the road or whatever, then you could try and give some sort of excuse as to why you flashed your lights...

    ...but when it's an open road, and the only thing around is a speed camera...

    ...why else did you flash the oncoming car?
     
  19. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    One could argue that all fines are simple money generation schemes, what would suggest for breaking the law? Taking money from people is virtually the only way of making them realise they have done some thing wrong, people are like toddlers they all think they are going about their lives is a virtuouse way, even if they are doing 60 round a sharp bend, 32 out side a school or letting their dog foul the streets. For those offences would you recommend a prison sentence or would you let them slide as they're not really offences.

    Fixed cameras work for a great many people in that they bring the speed down to the limit and for most people they keep the speed at that level, going slower is safer than going faster its simple physics. A minority immediately resume speeding upon passing the lines the only way to remind them that speeding is not appropriate is to hand out fixed penalties and points and generally they only get the message when they get to 9. The only way to catch people speeding since fixed cameras are really there to reduce the average speed on a road not to catch people for speeding is to have mobile speed traps.

    I don't think any one would consider speed enforcement cameras police work, they're not even run by the police for a start. To be quite honest i don't think police officers consider speed enforcement police work, child minding is probably a better word for it. Any job that can be done by a machine really should, gps monitoring is likely sooner or later purely becuase people on the roads can't behave them selves.

    Also, surveillance system, seriously. Its a fairy **** surveillance system!


    Highway code Rule 110.
     
  20. nukeman8

    nukeman8 What's a Dremel?

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    to warn them of an oncoming speed trap of course but the person he is warning isn't necessarily speeding and if they are not speeding then how come he be charged with obstructing the police?
     

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