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Motors car audio help please

Discussion in 'General' started by Sid, 4 Aug 2003.

  1. Sid

    Sid Banned

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    Hi, my friend has just bought his first car, a Honda Civic. He's doing it up good and proper, starting from the inside. He needs a bit of help choosing the amps and speakers for it, I said I'd ask on here for him 'cause I know there are a few guys here that know their stuff.

    He already has the source component: A sony CDX-CA900 CD Player.

    He's looking to get a set of rear speakers, front speakers, a sub, and suitable amp(s). Been thinking about the likes of Sony or Phoenix. I think he'd like it to be a quite a high-end system, Probably a good few hundred available, I'm really not that sure. Not thousands or anything.

    As well as listing what you think the best kit is, could you also explain about various configurations and what would probably be best.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Silver Talon

    Silver Talon New Member

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    Sony makes a decient product for the price. I'm not a fan of them when it comes to high end / competition level componets, but for a normal mid range system, it's a good buy. You can also look into Kenwood, Infinity Reference Series, and even Alpine in the line of spaekers.

    As for amps, Rockford Fosgate , MTX, and Alpine make good middle end amps. If I had to choose one, I'd go with Fosgate, though I hate to admit it. They have always made a rock solid amp capable of a long life if you keep them cool and make sure they are grounded properly.

    Now if this guy want's high end, there is no match to "Audiobahn" ( www.audiobahninc.com ) These people have gone from "Mr. Nobody" to the most advanced audio company in just about 6 years. Their parts are not for someone that want's the good parts but don't really know how to install them properly. They are also priced to reflect their quality. If he's not willing to spend at least $1500 on the speakers and amps for a low wattage (<750 watts) then stick with Sony or the others.

    Now for sub woofer enclosures. I'd recomend that you NOT buy a Q-Logic box because they are a "general" box for multiple applications. If you have someone around there that makes custom enclosures for each set of speakers, it's worth the extra $50. This will not only make the bass sound SOO much better, but it will also lengthen the life of the subs. Too small of a box and the speakers won't cool properly, too large, and you can damage the surround, "spiders", or even the voice coil itself. If the speaker is made to operate in a 1.5 cubic foot box, don't "settle" for a 1.25 or a 1.75... you'll regret it in the long run.

    It don't hurt to talk to the installer of a shop... they usually don't get commision on sales. Ask them what they recommend... they'll usually be straight with ya. You can also go to a local IASCA or USAC competition and talk to the judges. They know what sounds best for the price.

    Tell your buddy "Good luck" on his system... nothing like hearing music the way that it was meant to be heard.


    Silver Talon
     
  3. micb

    micb Active Member

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    Stay away from Sony for Speakers, Amplifiers and Subwoofers.


    Good amplifier makes:

    Kicker, Alpine, Directed (DEI), Rockford Fosegate, Xantt, Ininity, MTX Audio, Phoenix gold, JL Audio, Arc Audio and Genesis.


    Stay away from Jenson, Pyrmid, Boss, Crunch, legacy, Sony and Coustic.


    For subwoofers you have for good mix of SQ and SPL :

    JL Audio w3's/W7's, Infintity Perfects, Kicker L7/L5/Comp VR, Directed Comp X, Fusion, Diamond Audio, Crystal, Resonant Engineering and Adireaudio Shivia/Tempest/Brahma.


    Get some decent component speakers up front, make sure they have an external amplifier for them, then have a seperate two channel bridged or a monoblock amplifier powering a sealed subwoofer enclosure in the boot.
     
  4. Iamgoodyy

    Iamgoodyy New Member

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    I love my Infinity Refrence series speakers, and they are rather cheap now. Profile makes one of the best amps that I can find for the price. US Acoustics also are in the same price range. Make sure that you get the tweets up in the dash it makes the soundstage great. I saved some money in my car, in setting up the audio mainly for the front passengers, no need to worry about the back seat if you don't normally have people back there. Getting seperate tweets and speakers, instead of component is a little easier installing because you don't have to hide the crossover. Anyway good luck~
     
  5. micb

    micb Active Member

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    Custom boxes can be much better although you got a few errors.


    All Subwoofer drivers have Thiele/Small parameters, the sealed box will have to modeled on these and built to specifications.


    A too small (very high sealed Q value (0.9)) enclosure will actually give less response in the lower regions but a more in the mid region, power handeling will increse due to the suspension of air in the enclosure providing greater driver damping.

    A too large (Very low sealed Q value (0.5)) enclosure will give better response in the lower regions but will reduce the overall power handeling of the driver, although if exercion limits are watched the this can be ok.


    Often a mid Q of (0.707) will provide good low bass output with adaquate power handeling.

    Different drivers require different airspaces.

    My Infinity Perfect 10.1 in a custom 0.8 cf enclosure plays louder and much lower than the two other subs I tried, a OLD Sony Xplode 1240 in 1.25 foot custom enclosure and OLD Kenwood 12 WS3000 series in a 1 foot enclosure.

    The Infinity has twice the excursion (Linear X-max) of the other subwoofers.
     
    Last edited: 4 Aug 2003
  6. Sid

    Sid Banned

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    Yeah, he was looking at Phoenix gold. I really wouldn't have much of a clue about picking from all of those better manufacturers. micb, you seem to know what you're doing, so...say I was to give you urm, between, £400-£600 in total for speakers, amps, subs and anything else you'd need, what would you choose.
     
  7. samuelellis

    samuelellis New Member

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    id say genesys amplification (but then agian i am a snob)

    & daimond audio compnents
     
  8. micb

    micb Active Member

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    You are going to need wires that will be approx £40-70 depending on what you get.

    I do not know what speakers you friend Honda Civic can take as I do not know the model, year style etc.

    Civics usually have 6.5 components if I remember correctly.

    If it was me buying here is some choices.


    Subwooofers.

    Infintiy Perfect 12.1 and box £184.99 (or the cheaper)
    JL Audio 12W0-4 and box £129.99

    Sub Amps
    Rockford Fosegate PUNCH501S £239.99 (or the cheaper)
    Rockford Fosegate PUNCH401S £179.99

    Component Speaker 6.5 inch.
    Infinity Kappa 65.5cs £169.99 (or the cheaper)
    Infinity 655CS £99.99

    Speaker Amplifiers.
    PG QX180.2 £129.99 (or the cheaper)
    PG QX90.2 £89.99


    The cheaper choices of the parts is approx £500.

    The better more expencive parts are approx £720.


    A good mix would be the:

    Infinity 12.1 subwoofer.
    Rockford Fosegate PUNCH401S Sub Amplifier.
    Infinity 655CS Speaker.
    PG QX90.2 Speaker Amplifier.

    Approx £550.
     
  9. Silver Talon

    Silver Talon New Member

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    micb... when it comes to sub enclosures.. 2 words.. "BassBox Pro" You take that with the right building material (3/4" MDF), the correct fasteners, sealant (Liquid Nails Construction Adheasive), and a way to pressurize the chambers to candle test, and I can make a perfect box for any sub. Might want to check it out.
     
  10. micb

    micb Active Member

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    Silver Talon:

    I used bassbox pro quite a few years ago, I mainly model with WINISD and WINISD pro.

    Or if I am looking at Adireaudio drivers then I use LSPCAD.

    I usually use Wood glue, Silicone and Weather stripping for air tight seals.

    You do have to be careful using some silicone sealent as it releases corrosive fumes in the cure stage (24 hours) and these can dissolve at electronics and subwoofer driver material.
     
  11. Silver Talon

    Silver Talon New Member

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    Not too fond of using Silicone for the main reason of that it tends to come off. I used weather stripping once between the seams to see what it would do and wasn't impressed by the resaults. Liquid Nails is some serious adheasive that I use after the box is complete and sometimes to fill in gaps made by cutting. It dries hard and does not come off, under any situation. (even on chest hair :duh: ) Here's the stuff that I use...

    http://www.liquidnails.com/adhesives/ln-903.html

    Works great for MDF, as long as you let it dry fully before testing the driver in it. If you pressure test your boxes, then I recommend you test them while it's still damp, it helps force it into any leaks. Found this to make a perfectly air tight box. (I prefer sealed over anything else) This stuff with "T-Nuts" and you got one really sealed, very well built enclosure.

    I find BassBox quite perfect, especially when setting up for use with passive crossovers using X-Over... though I usually use the crossover on the amp or a passive Eq. It's also nice to have the database being updated a lot so that I don't have to hunt the info down. The main thing that I like about it is that I don't have to write down dimentions and do all the figuring of material thickness adjustments in my head. Just design the box, make any modifications needed in angle and size, then print a cut sheet. It's worth the money to get it if you are going to make more than 2 or 3 boxes, and you can make them from friends to pay off the price of the software. I'll give the ones that you mentioned a try, though the "beta" thing is not something that I like to see. Never know though... might find it interesting.
     
  12. micb

    micb Active Member

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    Weather stripping should not be used for seams on an enclosure, its primary use is as a gasket between driver and enclosure.

    Liquid nails, I may have to try that to see what it is like.

    Just out of curiosity, what sub driver/s and crossover setting do you use in you car?
     
  13. Silver Talon

    Silver Talon New Member

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    I don't have any subs in my car anymore. With 2 young children and a wife that does not like a lot of bass, they went with the car so that we could get a "family car". My last set was a pair of 12" Kenwood KFC-WF302 in one of my enclosures, running off a Pioneer Premiere GM-X1022. As for crossover settings, I used a continuiously variable sub crossover because of the different types of music that I listen to and the mood that I was in. I usually ran them around 150-180hz.

    I plan on doing another setup as soon as my kids are a little older and money isn't so damn tight. The next set will be Audiobahn throughout, everything from the head unit to the speakers. Will probably go with a 1000-1500 watts system, maybe a bit bigger, but doubtful.
     
  14. micb

    micb Active Member

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    12" Kenwood KFC-WF302 I have used these in a few installs in a friends car.

    You are right about high crossover for these played right up into mid bass.

    Quite a few newer subwoofers these days sound don't sound great above 80 hz.

    I tried a Kenwood ported and sealed. Ported was much louder but sealed sounded much better, those Kenwoods could not take much more than 250 rms each.

    I found that they did not play much below 33 hz the rolloff was very steep after that, the truly lowest notes of bass 20- 28 hz was lost.
     
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