Do you believe that poor people are simply lazy?

Yes, they are - but it isn't so much lazy as it is following the path of least resistance.

 

I would say yes but it is not so much all poor people are lazy but alot of lazy people tend to be poor. Hardworkers escape the council estates and benifit holding famillies.

What worries me in particular is that the people who are best in every generation leave the estate, become more sucessful and have their children with someone from elsewhere. However each generation there are people who are left behind my and large people who aren't as able as thier counterparts so as they influence thier own children through both primarily legacy of personality and secondarily through lesser genetics (over time).


Some estates are becoming like a gene puddle where people seem to be related to everyone else which I find worrying.

for example when my grandad was a resident of a council estate in the 50s and 60s he was hard working and a manager, therefore he left and got a private house and similar with my gran (however just hard working). However such stories become slightly more suprising and less common as the years go by. What is happeningmy be a dividng effect whereby the quality of the people on the estate slowly is driven down socially, intellectually and slowly genetically.


There comes a point whereby fiscal social policies stop working and more legislative/regulation/policy needs to be enacted. Socialist I know tend to be of the Ilk of throw money at it and it will go away. While social policy would be too far, such as asking people work for specific benifits they recieve after being on them for so long such as JSA.

People are content with different living standards because of social and personal reasons and it is likely that "benifit scroungers" are subjectively happy with thier lives just as people who work would be happy being able to maintain thier private house, substantial garden and nice food if they could. Some want more or less on massively varying levels. Which is the very definition of ambition.

In conlusion:
Lack of ambition, lack of ability to execute ambtion and simple lack of luck is what holds poverty in modern britain with lack of ambition being ever increasingly the majority reason.

How do you instill ambition and skill into inherently ambitionless and unskilled people?

Modern solutions for this proportion rely on the answer to that question in my opinion.

 

I'll say yes, but only because I know of quite a few people who are poor, but are physically & mentally capable of doing work, and finding a job but prefer to sit on their ass all day.


However there are loads of people who are poor due to physical/emotional/metal handicaps. But I definably do think (and know of) people who are poor because they choose to not try to find a job, nor work hard at it, nor save money.

 

You definitely sound like you are stereotyping. I also think you are wrong. If we are talking about people who geniunely are below the poverty line, then they very often have a much harder time existing than any of you guys have posted here would appreciate.

There are lazy people in all walks of life, and just because someone is poor doesn't make them lazy at all. I find some of the replies here to be very snobbish to be honest. My family were never wealthy, and after my Dad died when we were young, my Mum had to bring us up on the pittance of the Army war widows pension she got. We got given a council house in a rough area after being shipped back to civvy street, and we went from having my Dad providing a decent wage to us living off a small amount of money, would that make us lazy? Could my Mum have prevented what happened? Did she have much realistc chance of changing our situation at that time?

Not as clear cut as some of the snobby ones here seem to think it is! There are the dole scroungers and the benefits cheats etc. but let's never tar everyone with the same brush.

 

define poverty

I believe the question must first be asked "What is Poverty?"

A neighbor of ours Carol yesterday went to court to petition the court to assist her with collecting child support. The magistrate gave her $80 per week for four children - for a total of $320/mo

While she works - she hardly can come up with the difference. Her ex-husband, a dead beat, has a fairly decent paying job - but would rather spend his money doing other things -

The courts - while having the power to help - simply said if we make him pay more he would simply quit - and we would have no recourse... except to throw him in jail and thus cost the county more money...

Welcome to an excellent court system here in Fayette County, Ohio. - Honestly i think they do a good job - but are up against a bear of issues.

So - define poverty ...

I believe these children live in poverty -
Have you ever tried to put clothing on a childs back for just $80/mo, what about feeding them, each of these children are expected to live on just over $4100 per annum in support from their father.

Define poverty - ...

I define poverty as the "Lack of Power to Change ones situation."

These children lack the power to change their situation - each does well in school - but until they are old enough to work a position that can help pay their own way - each will continue to hurt.

There are others in this same position all over this nation... sadly - it is more the norm than most of us would like to admit.

 

My family also went through a very rough patch where there was absolutely no free money in the household, my grandparents had an emergency and my parents had to give them everything they had, max out both credit cards and even mortgage the house just to cover all the expenses.

So we ended up in a situation where we were drowning in debt, and there was no money for anything, I still remember needing new shoes cause my only pair was falling apart and they couldn't afford it. My parents both got two jobs, so once they finished work at their primary job they then went through to a community college and gave night classes. I also started working then at age 14 just because I couldn't bring myself to ask them for anything.

We got everything sorted out in a few years but those years were tough, but they taught me that instead of just giving up and wallowing in that situation, you just need to work hard and you'll get through it. Granted both my parents were highly qualified (college proffessors) and maybe that also has a bearing on their response to this.

Since I started working at 14, I haven't stopped, and while my parents still help me out a little (They gave me their old car and pay for my medical insurance - I guess they feel bad for those several years) everything I have achieved and everything I own is because of the work I put it in.

I fully agree with a lot of the sentiments in this thread about the "path of least resistance", a lot of people just don't have it in them to fight or work and so will just lie back and see where life takes them.

 

Until I was 11, our family lived a life with not too much money. In fact my dad emigrated from Vietnam the whole rags to riches shebang. So no, it's more of drive and the idea to take the harder path.

So yes some are lazy, others are not.

 

I'm not sure where I lie on this issue. I've had a fairly priveledged upbringing, and haven't even started university, so don't have much personal experience of the matter, but I will try to add something by dding my family's experiences.

I think hard work will clearly stand you in good stead, whatever your ability, hence both my parents coming from a set of mediocre O-levels to having fairly well paid jobs in banking (no flaming please). But, both of them are also very intelligent and able, and so have come a lot further than other family members who are just as hard working but less able. In particular, my aunt couldn't work from the age of about 30 due to mental problems, so clearly it was not a case of laziness, just circumstance.

And, on the flip side, I never worked particularly hard in school etc. but got top grades through my memory and natural ability, and am going to one of the top universities because of this.

The moral of the story is this, my friends, people do not always get where they are through hard work, luck and ability helps a lot. People who work hard will not always get where they want, luck and ability will play a big part. People who are poor, are not always lazy. People who are lazy are not always poor.

Life isn't fair, you just have to make the most out of the hand you are dealt.

 

i beleive there are genuinely people whom are less intelligent and less capable than others, not being mean but that is the way it is

obviously the smart people are going to get paid more than the less (obviously caveat that with hard work / average work / lazy work)

however to say poor people are lazy is very wrong as there are some very hard working people on minimum wage that dont have much choice other than to earn what they earn

but they work hard adnd do the best too provide for their families


also alot is todo with upbringing some kids are given teh very worst start in life mothers / fathers on the dole have been for years, they cant be arsed to get up and take their kids to football training let alone school now that kid ends up on a minimum wage job i see it as having done well for them selves as it is one up on his / her parents and good on them hopefully their kids will do one better again , and again

 

+1

Bingo. +1

 

That's one of the best definitions I've come across (and welcome to the forums, hostmedic).

Poverty is fundamentally about a lack of power. So it is kind of difficult to get out of.

I was homeless once, too (in the 'Homeless Light' sense, sleeping on friends and relatives' sofa's rather than park benches although it came close a few times). However I was just finishing off my studies at Uni so regardless of my crappy circumstances I had some power and was able, eventually, to get a job and get on with it. The problem is that many people do not have such luck.

Intelligence, talent, ability: we refer to these as "gifts" because we recognise that they are bestowed on us randomly. They are not earned; they are a lucky combination of nature/nurture factors. The right genes, baked to perfection in the right womb (of a healty, non-smoking, well-fed mother) and subsequently actualised by being raised in the right environment, which go on to combine with similar privilliged genes to make the next generation. Some people are lucky that way.

Some just are not. They have things going against them in staggering amounts; a combination of not-very-good genes baked in a womb that is undernourished, underage and/or unhealthy and subsequently underactualised in a deprived environment. This is your life: you don't strive for better because you don't know any better. For some people, poverty is something they have suffered for generations. It is almost cultural. It is who and what they are and all that they know. To climb out of it is almost as inconceivable as it is for us to, say, become the next dictator of North Korea.

 

This is a nice summary i think. I voted yes, since the homeless people i see on the street, can walk, talk, see & hear, which is more then enough to make something of yourself if you put in a little bit of hard work.
There are heaps of exceptions though, so there are heaps of poor people out there that can't get out of it allthough they are working as hard as they possibly can. I should have thought about these guys before i voted

And sleeping on a friend's couch isn't homeless - that's still sleeping inside a home, and one where the people there care about you a little bit at least. It's closer to being under foster care! Not the same thing as shacking up in an abandoned building, and a world away from a park bench or a quiet alleyway, etc...

+1 for Hostmedic's definition.

 

I think poor people give up easily, not lazy. Everyone gets worn down and agitated. Have you ever been banned from a grocery store and cant get food from anywhere else? I'm talking about a mom-pop grocery where the owner rings up the register and after you pay he punches you in the mouth. Much worse is the hivemind wal-mart cult-like employees who are trained to instantly hate you like a creepy meme. Depending on the person who doesnt have a car it's a large problem. Where will you get Food? This is only one circumstance which could affect a person into becoming poor. It's not lazy, just a bad string of luck.

 

Simple answer - Yes and no.

There are those that are comfortable with "the system" and decide to stay on benefits at all costs as working is simply too much work - Waking up in the morning, being responsible and answering to someone, working long hours, usually doing something they dont enjoy.

Yes for those people that give in because they cant be asked - YES.

For others - No.

You can be poor and work really hard because you dont want to be on benefits, because you want to make something of yourself and your children so you give it 200%.

I have said this numerous times and il say it again because I really do believe in it;

My parents came to this country with just a suitcase and me and my brother - Thats it.

My mother and father worked around 60-80 hours per week each, my mother earning £1.50 per hour back then, my dad also about the same as a delivary man.

We never had birthdays ever, we had one single birthday each and that was when I was 12 or 13 ( I dont recall which) and my brother also - Thats it, never had any presents for christmas, easter, birthdays or anything.

Despite not having much we worked our asses off as best as we could in our given situation - Its tough when other kids have so much more, fancy trainers, clothes etc and you dont but we did it in the hope we could get something out of life.

My family I would have considered poor all those years ago and still currently were not rich...but we own our own home as a family, I have just bought one myself and although not rich - I earn about £20k a year currently at age 24 which I am proud of.

Its not allot but I am proud of what I and my family have accomplished in 22 years considering we came here with nothing. I cant wait to do even more myself now for my children when I have some and set them up to accomplish even more.

Are poor people lazy? This poor person isnt.

 

I would imagine that you would find that there are more lazy rich people.

It depends how you define lazy.

I consider people who only think of themselves, who plod through life merely wanting to accumulate wealth rather than knowledge, who consider procreation an achievement and who do nothing about any wrongs they see around them to be lazy.