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Graphics DX12

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by law99, 7 Feb 2015.

  1. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    Last edited: 7 Feb 2015
  2. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Good read, shame Microsoft are eight or nine years late with a version of DX that properly supports multi-core CPU's but i guess that's what happens when you abandon the fast moving world of PC's in favor of consoles.
     
  3. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Im just surprised how good the early alpha / preview stuff is in dx 12. Granted its a best case scenario but we are still talking basically fully alpha drivers on alpha software. To be beating Mantle at its own game is definitly a huge + point for Microsoft.

    Fully developed drivers and it could be intresting to see if AMD continues to persue mantle in any shape or form when dx 12 does the same job and will have to be coded for either way. Coding for dx 12 and mantle seems rather mental as you wont be gaining anything extra.
     
  4. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    It is really good to see. As I have an AMD card you wouldn't catch me not using mantle. But as with all things, the freedom is better. I'll be an early adopter for WIndows 10 looking at this. Kudos to AMD for getting it out there first, similar to Nvidia and Gsync, but the sooner it is across the board the better.
     
  5. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I can't see AMD abandoning Mantle anytime soon, Mantle is supposedly going to be cross platform (Linux, Windows, PS4 XBOX) and not exclusive to a particular OS version.

    I know DX12 can't realistically be back ported to older version of Windows, it's just a shame the success or failure of DX12 depends so much on Windows 10.
     
    law99 likes this.
  6. JamesRC

    JamesRC Minimodder

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    Very good article and exciting stuff. I can't quite believe the figures, very promising gains for high end cards.

    It'll be interesting to see if the new AMD cards see better gains than the current generation.
     
  7. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    I was not aware of that. Sounds promising.
     
  8. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    Linux maybe, but Microsoft and Sony have both categorically ruled out it being an API on XB1 or PS4.
    DX12 - or at least a variant of it - is coming to the XB1, however Microsoft themselves have stated that it will not offer noticeable performance improvements (as the XB1 already has a low-level API). The PS4 also already has its own low-level API.
    Unless something goes terribly wrong with DX12 development and performance regresses from it's current state, then I can only see Mantle being of any importance for a handful of Windows 7 holdouts.
    With Windows 10 coming by the end of the year and upgrades to it being free, I can't imagine Nvidia or Intel putting development effort into supporting Mantle if AMD were to make good on their promise to open the API up for free use. DX 12 and OpenGL Next will get priority. If OpenGL Next turns out to be Mantle in all but name, then maybe, but in that case it's more likely that developers will switch to Next and Mantle will disappear.
     
  9. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Yeh Microsoft an Sony both confirmed the low level Api was not mantle which surprised a few tech sites. As they all assumed with it been AMD apus it would make sense.
     
  10. Qazax

    Qazax Fap fap fap

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    I am surprised DirectX has been single threaded for so long given the rise of multi core CPU's, nobody has a single core CPU any more, Microsoft are a little late to the party but it is a welcome improvement.
     
  11. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Would love to read something about that as it seems there's a lot of conflicting information about Mantle, I read that Mantle makes developing games simultaneously for PC, Xbox and PS4 very easy and will allow ‘optimizations for consoles to carry over to PC’.

    Only time will tell how the uptake of Windows 10 turn's out, it's probably going to do better than 8.x but I'm going to reserve judgment as Microsoft has a history of gimping things at the last minute and some people aren't happy with some of the features of Windows 10.

    Yea i can't see Nvidia putting effort into it, but Intel has apparently approached AMD for access to Mantle, although that was when Mantle was still in the closed beta phase. (is it still in closed beta?)

    Microsoft abandoned gaming on Windows almost 15 years ago when they decided to take on Sony.
     
  12. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Anandtech and other sites like it all confirmed Sony and MS was not using Mantle. Not sure why they would have a reason to say it if it was not correct.

    Sony have stated before themselves on playstation magazine that they do not use Mantle API. As they have there own APIs for that stuff. Also helps that nearly every game that will get launched on ps4 and xbox one will be coded to metal not to any API.

    The next Halo and Uncharted will surely be direct to metal games to get them to look and run how each developer wants.

    The easy to develop for bit is because they share the same architecture nothing to do with Mantle.Which 60-70% (Steams figures nothing else to base numbers on ) of all gaming pcs in use do not have access to anyway.

    I think Mantle will quietly disappear (Once windows 10 is launched) as AMD has more important stuff to put its time and money into. Like launching a new gpu and cpu architecture whilst they still a relivent company.
     
  13. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    That right there is a contradiction, you say that Sony have their own API for that stuff, and then say they don't have an API as they code to metal, which is it ?

    If it's nothing to do with Mantle why did Capcom present a slide titled: Game engine improvements using Mantle ?
    [​IMG]

    Anythings possible, after all we're just speculating about what the future holds.
    For all we know AMD could go bust tomorrow. :worried:
     
  14. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    I read it as -

    There is *is* an API, but a lot of devs don't *use* the API and code to metal if they can...
     
  15. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    The custom API is 'coding to metal'.
    Sony and MS publish the low-level operation of the console hardware to allow for developers to optimise against it. There will occasionally be non-documented API calls that developers may exploit, but this has the issue that these may disappear or misbehave with no prior warning, so usually only end up being used for testing rather than in production code for games.
     
  16. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Mantle had its chance to really shine and has not really gained traction. Microsoft is giving away windows 10 with dx 12 so will gain a lot more traction and it will work on all gpus unlike Mantle.

    As a Developer your not going to code for both DX12 and Mantle that would be just super pointless.

    And as you said AMD could be bust or sold within the next 6-12 months. If they do not launch an actual New gpu architecture inside the next 6months are they really still valid at all?
     
  17. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Seriously ? I thought it was still in beta, apparently Mantle is going to be open to all so it's not like Intel or Nvidia couldn't use it on their GPUs if they wanted to.

    And what would you do if you had plans to release a Mac version, or Linux, PS4, etc, etc.
    Coding just for DX12 would preclude a large segment of potential customers, that might have made sense a few years ago when it was a Microsoft world but nowadays Windows isn't the only player in town.

    If i code for DX12 i can release something on a single OS, if i use Mantle supposedly I'm going to be able to use that on any device, that's if what we are told about it comes true.
     
  18. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    Mantle on Nvidia? I thought they were pretty dismissive of it. I'd imagine OpenGL Next would be seen as the one to go cross platform with greatest effect as it already is & can't be misconstrued as anything else. I doubt Nvidia would trust Mantle on their products anyway, being an AMD machination.
     
  19. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Nvidia are very dismissive of it and it will probably never happen, but technically there is nothing stopping them (afaik) from using it.

    I tend to agree with you law99 that glNext looks to be the best solution, what with it not being dependent on who makes the hardware or what version of OS you're running, but the way Valve's been dragging it's feet with SteamOS i don't hold out much hope for it.
     
  20. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    DirectX 12 Will Allow Multi-GPU Between GeForce And Radeon
    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-directx12-amd-nvidia,28606.html
    Does this mean we could have a Radeon GPU doing Mantle and other AMD exclusive work, and a Nvidia GPU doing PhysX and other Nvidia propitiatory work, in effect the best of both worlds ?
     

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