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French court rejects disfigured woman's euthanasia plea

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Cthippo, 18 Mar 2008.

  1. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    Original story

    I find it sad that a society would require someone to go on living when they desire to die. This woman is in horrible pain, bith physincal and emotional, and her government is telling her that she must continue to suffer. Call me strange, but I have a problem with that. :nono:
     
  2. outlawaol

    outlawaol Geeked since 1982

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    This is like Dr. Kovorikian (sp?).

    That aside though, there are about 100 ways that I can think right now on how to end your life. I mean why bother with asking someone? Just do yourself in and be done with it! Peaceful or not, asking to die (from a doctor) is like saying to a police officer "can you just shoot me please because I cant pay the ticket."
     
  3. Major

    Major Guest

    I've seen a pic of her and she is in a right state, if she wants to die, let her die, your being inhumane for not letting her have her own way.
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    outlawaol is right:
    Doctors are not in the killing business --peaceful or otherwise. They are not trained for it. There are no support services for it. Asking ordinary doctors and hospitals to do this could lead to role confusion in a very bad way...

    That does not mean that there should not be a service or professional available for this woman to end her life in dignity, but her GP is not necessarily the best person for it.
     
  5. Poisonous

    Poisonous Incestuious

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    Isn't it illegal to commit suicide anyway?
     
  6. Seth

    Seth What's a Dremel?

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    what are they going to do? put your body in jail?
     
  7. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    Send you into protective custody and put you on Suicide watch. Can't be fun.
     
  8. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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    If she wants to die she should kill herself if you ask me. It is wrong for someone to ask a doctor to kill you when they have the ability to do it themselves. DNRs and so on I can cope with, or if someone is literally unable to kill themselves, but this woman is clearly able to jumping off a bridge, so asking someone else to finish her off smacks of attention seeking to me.
     
  9. Major

    Major Guest

    Attention seeking? You must be joking me, I think she gets enough attention daily than most of us can handle in a lifetime.

    She wants to do it professionaly, she doesn't want to commit suicide by overdosing or pulling a gun to her head, she wants to be put to sleep, how can you not understand that?

    And illegal to commit suicide? It's your life, do whatever you want to do with it, no one can control your actions.
     
  10. Kipman725

    Kipman725 When did I get a custom title!?!

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    asking somone else to do it is unfair she can still suforcate herself presumably? anyway death is never peacefull your body stuggles to live till the very last.
     
  11. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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    If she was wanting to avoid attention then why take this matter through the courts given that she wants to die very soon?

    I get the whole "I want to die peacefully and safely" thing - but it doesn't take a genius to overdose on sleeping pills and wine.

    My view is simple: Suicide is selfish, but a personal choice. To ask someone to kill you however because you refuse to do it yourself is both morally and ethically questionable and also flawed in its entire reasoning. You are putting someone in a position they don't want to be in so that they can put you in a situation you want to be in but which you could do yourself but refuse to do for no really established reason. In the time it took her to go through the courts she could have swiped her own bodyweight in morphine.

    If you want to die and are able of suicide then that is your path. Euthanasia of someone who is capable of suicide is not euthanasia at all, but murder with consent.
     
  12. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Hmm. If she truly wants to die, then why does she need the doctor to do it. Perhaps there is something keeping her from doing it herself. I wonder if she truly wants to die, or if she's looking for some kind of sympathetic attention rather than the (perceived) negative attention she usually gets.

    -monkey
     
  13. Major

    Major Guest

    I'm sure anyone who looks like this wants to die, no questioned asked, end of.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article852585.ece

    She isn't an attention seeker at all.
     
  14. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    So who handles it now for the termnally ill who can legally die in the EU? I know in Oregon, which has similar laws, there is a procedure, but in the end any GP can write the prescription. As I understand it it's usually for pills which are crushed into food and the patient eats.

    The only difference between this case and the ones for which assisted suicide are legal is how long the patient would live otherwise. If this horrible condition was going to kill her within 6 months then it wouldn't even be a court case.
     
  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Everyone is an attention seeker. Not very insightful mental health professionals have just made it sound like it's abnormal behaviour.

    CardJoe and monkey are right: there are many ways in which she could have relatively painlessly committed suicide. Instead she goes through an exhasperating and lengthy legal process to have it done by a doctor. So what gives?

    My guess? She wants to be dead (i.e. experience release) but is afraid of dying. She doesn't want to face it alone; she wants to be held and supported during the process. She wants someone to hold her hand as she steps into the dark. It may not be ethical or logical, but dying is scary, so can you blame her really?

    Understand more, judge less.

    In Holland, even the GP can assist. I'm not happy with that arrangement though. I think it is something that should be delegated to specialist terminal/palliative care services.
     
  16. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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    It is a personal choice for her to make - she can overcome her fear or accept her life with it as far as I'm concerned. In a case like this with mass publicity and a possible legal precedent she is throwing herself upon a court to BE judged. Maybe not by us, but it has to be accepted as a likelihood. Her pushing on this because she is afraid of killing herself could open up the legal system to all sorts of possible injustices and wrongs, as well as taxing an already stretched medical system and putting undue strain on doctors who may have understandable objections to the process. Most of my family is in the NHS and, though I know this is in France, I'm anxious to protect them in anyway I can from the after-effects of things like this.

    She needs to make up her mind for herself and stop this.
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    I work in the NHS too, and although I totally understand and agree with your argument, I also understand where she is coming from (it's my job to, after all).

    As I said: her actions may not be ethical or rational, but dying is scary.
     
  18. Vers

    Vers ...

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    From a different perspective, just because one wants to end his or her own life does not necessarily mean by any means. There are peaceful ways to go...jumping off a bridge, hanging yourself or firing a round into your brain are neither of which. Some may also argue to purposely OD on certain drugs, but for those who lack the knowledge of the amount of physical pain one is subjected to before he/she succumbs its not the best way to go either. Point is a lethal injection via intervenous is not performed by the Doctor, rather by the patient. Sure the hospital may provide the means to do so but it is the patient who flips the switch, not the hospital employees. One click of the release valve by the patient and the drugs are immediately entered into the blood stream which would then render the patient unconscious prior to respiratory/heart/brain failure. Sounds pretty peaceful to me. If a person in complete suffering wants to die, let them die...its time to separate faith and politics and just get down to morals. During WWII thousands upon thousands of troops were mortally wounded on the battlefield, if nothing else the medic could give a lethal/substantial injection of morphine to relieve the soldier of suffering...I suppose the government would have them die 'naturally' then too.

    -Matt
     
  19. mr00Awesome

    mr00Awesome YEAH SWEET LEMONADE

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    No. It is not and has never been illegal to commit suicide(at least here in the US). If it was, what woulds they charge you with, Attempted murder on yourself? Who would press charges?
     
  20. loops

    loops What's a Dremel?

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    I can see the point of most people in here.
    I agree with nexxo on this one. EVERYONE without doubt is an attention seeker, everyone wants to be understood, or helped or given attention to on some issue, granted excessive doing so could be classed as a clinical issue but its not abnormal behaviour.
    Although I can see the point of most people on here who have said if she wanted to die she would have done so, but this woman has clearly gone through a lot of torment, I dont see how anyone can judge her for wanting to be helped and supported in ending her life. She's clearly not had a lot of support so far to reach the point of wanting to end her life.
    Everyone jumps to the conclusion that suicide cases are selfish, and yes in some cases they are, your leaving behind family and friends who are likely to suffer due to you doing so, and you arent going to go through anything after that point, your just going to be dead. But there is a few cases like this womans where someone has gone through absolute hell for years, and attempted to keep going but now just cant. A friend of my family's was one of these people and I still to this day dont believe she was selfish in her act, and she left a young son and a teenage daughter and her husband behind.
    Like nexxo said people should understand more, and judge less.
    I dont know about the legality of it, someone clever would have to point me there, though i do presume it's illegal, due to sectioning and things, cos to be fair if it was legal, they wouldnt bother trying to protect people who were attempting suicide by sectioning them? I may be wrong though.
     

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