Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by bit-tech, 5 Oct 2017.
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There's a few worried folks at AMD right now, methinks.
Hate to say "I told you so", but my prediction of the 8700K only being £40-50 more than the 7700K was about right, and the 8600K is not a bad CPU at all for just over £250. I think Intel will have a very good Christmas this year.
AMD desperately needs to sort it's clock issues out with Zen+, the one thing it had was multi-threaded performance, but through sheer clocks they are loosing that crown now, too.
AMD have nothing to worry about. They were never ahead in IPC or clocks and Ryzen has sold bloody well regardless of those two factors. Every one knows that gaming on Intel is faster but they have been buying Ryzen any way. Why? price and other reasons why they are fed up of Intel.
I also bet that you will not get a board like the B-350 Strix for £118 either.
CPUs are simply nowhere near as exciting as GPUs. A half decent CPU does the job perfectly, you are far better off making the enormous saving and buying a better GPU. AMD can and no doubt will drop the prices of Ryzen further. Making people think twice before handing over £360 for a CPU.
Then why did the entire Ryzen line suddenly drop in price?
Ryzen has been selling well because, up to now, it offered something Intel couldn't - a lot of cores on a cheap platform. Yeah, there isn't going to be the kind of entry point that B350 offers, but having a quick look there is more than a few options for Z370 boards at sub £130.
To say a company shouldn't be worried when it's main competitor, who has vastly deeper pockets, better connections in the industry and a massive lead in brand awareness, releases a new product that considerably out-performs their own... that's pretty brave!
I bought Ryzen because I'm fed up of Intel's gouging and I believe AMD being back in competition is deserving of my support.
Just imagine how much that 8700K would cost you if Ryzen wasn't so successful.
Not sure why you see a price drop as AMD being worried? obviously they will still make money or they would not do that. I would say they would be a bit more worried if they couldn't drop the price like their GPUs.
I agree that Ryzen has been selling well because it is cheap. And because of that, by that logic, it will continue to do so. There may be cheaper boards but you certainly won't get the feature set you get on B350.
Just looking on Amazon now and the 1600 is £179. That is half the price, exactly, of the Intel. Does the Intel offer up double the performance then? Looking at Cinebench the CL is about 30% faster. In gaming (I will ignore Ashes because it's poo and no one actually plays it) there is a 19 FPS difference in Deus Ex (but who cares when you are getting 90, right?) and pretty much nothing in Fallout 4.
And that is why people have been buying Ryzen. Because it's cheap, it's "good enough" and boards are not stupidly expensive. I've just had a look at the Z370 Strix and it costs £199. So £82 more than the B350 and has the same sound chip and Nichicon caps etc.
To be honest David you probably wouldn't have even seen this chip had Ryzen not turned up. Coffeelake would have been another 5% drip drip release and you would still be on 4c 8t mainstream.
Intel made and sold a hex core desktop CPU years ago (980X) and could have continued to do so and probably would have had Bulldozer not been a pile of cack. After that it was back to "Four cores is more than enough for every one.. We will keep our tech at half the speed it can run, call it a Xeon and no home users will ever get to see or use this tech".
And that's pretty much how it has been. BITD you basically looked to the server and workstation markets to see what you were getting next. Intel have stopped all of that.
Because of simple economics - When you're worried that demand for your products will fall because increased competition in your market, you lower prices to compensate.
Do you think they dropped prices out of generosity?!
Don't get me wrong, I know what you're saying - us consumers NEEDED Ryzen as much as AMD did, and Intel NEEDED to be shaken up to get a move on, but don't disillusion yourself and think the top brass at AMD are looking at Coffelake performance numbers and prices and feeling chill about it.
Don't ignore Ashes, my 1900X is stomping on everything in Bit techs review, its not even overclocked They must be running an old non optimized version
Well they have dropped the prices and kept them there a few times. So yes, I do actually feel that AMD have been pretty generous with Ryzen.
the CPUs themselves don;t seem that badly priced, the Z370 motherboard prices are taking the piss a bit though
the 970/980X were HEDT... so they didn't stop making 6c desktop CPUs, the just didn't bring it to 'regular' desktops and kept them on the HEDT platform, partly because BD was cack.
So I can get an i7-8700k with the same performance in multithreaded tasks as the R7-1800X, but way better singlecore performance and an iGPU ontop of it for the same price?
That's a no-brainer for me really, if I wanted to buy a new PC now.
I don't think you've grasped the point here - we don't want either company to be "feeling chill". What we have right now is almost perfect - AMD released Ryzen and forced Intel to release the products they are capable of, instead of the ones we've been forced to meekly accept in the past. If Intel's new releases are causing concern at AMD, that's great - let's hope Zen+ counter-punches again.
If Intel offers the best value when I am ready to upgrade again (in a few years), I will be buying Intel, but the most important thing is that I have a choice.
If you ignore the Ryzen 7 1700 @ £260? maybe.
...which doesn't have an iGP, which for jrs77 at least, is a deal breaker.
Well Intel announced the retirement of Z170 how long ago?
And now they've retired Z270 by proxy how many weeks later??
Bravo Intel, you've just shafted another load of your customers in the space of weeks...
No regrets at having jumped to Ryzen on that basis alone thanks.
Most of the market is low end, for that you need something cheap with igp. I suppose a bigger problem for AMD is i3's going quad core, and even low end i5's going hexa core. That's just moved the goal posts quite a long way for the low end ryzen + igp that they must be planning to release.
As for enthusiasts, well tbh this is a very strong release - the i5K looks like the best balance of performance/price for gaming now. Then there's the i7K if you are rich and the i3K if you are poor. Remember even the i3K after o/c is basically as fast as the top end skylake i5K. Competition is great!
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