Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by bit-tech, 7 Feb 2020.
you actually recommend this to quote your own words "ageing 14nm" CPU with outdated motherboard features and a higher price over the new AMD Ryzen CPUs!
Even the non HEDT AMD 3950x beat this chip in many runs and its not even aimed at the same market costs less to buy and has a lower TCO ....it seems bias is alive and well amongst reviewers still or intels ad dollars talk loudly which is it?
Ryzen 3950x might be more performant in areas but the Intel chip makes a case for itself on its level of performance and better platform with pcie lanes, something Ryzen 7/9 can't do at all. It is also still a cheaper HEDT platform than tr3xxx which is probably why it is recommended, whilst it is old process the fact of the matter is it still performs really well.
Once you clock the socks off it and consider the extra pci-e lanes of x299 it ain't half bad compared to the 3950x.
Overclocking makes this CPU a somewhat viable proposition in certain scenarios, sure. How the f*** do you cool that thing at max OC, though? We can only see system power draw in the article, but I think it's more than safe to assume the CPU draws >300W alone, maybe 350W. That's a hefty amount of money to spend on a custom WC loop on top of system cost. And even then not too many CPU cooler/rad combos will keep this beast stable.
Just because someone says something you don't like, it doesn't mean it's bias or "intels ad dollars" (sic). If you read carefully they layout their reasoning very clearly:
So if you're doing a lot of video editing, and your budget is around £800, it's probably the best chip for the job, but not for anything else.
(I'm not doing video editing, and my budget is less than half of that, so I'll stick to my 3700X.)
I have to partially agree with @suty455 here, though. The award seems wrong. This is a niche of a niche product. Only in very specific workloads and only with overclocking does it make sense to buy this specific Intel CPU over an AMD CPU. An award should indicate that this is a viable alternative in its market segment based on overall performance. And without context this award makes no sense whatsoever, does it?
yes but the whole point is in many areas the AMD non HEDT platform outperforms this at stock and as a package costs a lot less couple it with PCIE4 and the case seems to lose its lustre, that and the huge TCO at overclocked speeds and the massive cooling required really means it has no place being given a recommend at all for 99% of users including pros
I agree that it isn't suitable for the majority, but depending on what you need from the platform and workload it does fill the gap AMD left when they decided to start TR 3xxx all the way up at £1250 with the 3960x.
it absolutely does not deserve a recommended rating...bias confirmed
I'm also a bit confused by the award, as a i9-7900x owner I'm already invested in the X299 ecosystem and can't really understand the recommendation for this chip. For me it's too middle of the road in performance compared to it's price, and it's position in the life cycle of the supporting chip set. I will admit that in the future if the price is right (read very low) I may get the new 18 core variant as a drop in upgrade but the i9-10940X would have to be pretty much free for me to consider it in preference to the chip I currently have, I will also state that in all likelihood this machine will last me in it's current spec for the next 5 years with only more storage and possibly a GPU upgrade.
Water and lots of radiator space.
Ended up going with 360mm and 240mm Rads to keep my 7980XE cool (mid 70's full load) at a relatively modest 4.3Ghz all core overclock (1.08v) pulling ~ 290w CPU alone. A de-lid would help (in case at least but not for the 10xxx series) but I would prefer to retain the warranty.
It was quite eye opening how much power these CPU's consume (and thus heat that has to be managed) once you start cranking the all core clocks.
For the vast vast VAST majority of people you would far better off going for a 3900/3950X or stumping up the extra for TR3 if the PCI-E lanes are a requirement (plus benefiting from the massive increase in CPU performance - 24 core vs 14 in this example).
We've never been biased, we're not biased and we never will be biased. I can rattle you off a list of biased reviewers that would surprise you if you really want. Heck, Some companies even sell spots in their "top 5 x" lists. Never accuse us of bias. You're wrong.
Onto this specific CPU. If you want PCIe lanes, do a bit of video editing and a bit of gaming it seems like a fine CPU. Now let's also remember for all the gains AMD has made some programs do still prefer Intel and I suspect you could get a higher single core clock on this chip over the AMD chips for the few programs that just won't scale no matter what you do.
Me personally? I'd go AMD. I'm not a fan of Intel and it's the better choice for myself but not everyone.
Cooling it is not so bad really, any one like myself who has been cooling big chips and multi GPU for years is probably already capable, puts out less power than some GPU setups I have had and it only uses that power when your really use it, it is not going to be doing that load 24/7, anyone who needs 24/7 full load stability won't be someone interested in OCing.
My most power consuming setup was 3x modded radeon 290s and I think it was an x6 but might have had a 3770 by then, 1.1-1.2KW @ the socket, that was after getting a more efficient PSU too, just had two rads, a 3x 120 and a 2x120, still same setup now, just in new case. My room got very warm.
Remember, HEDT is not general use. If you want a CPU for general use, and you're looking at HEDT platforms, then you could just build a nice little £50-note bonfire from your wallet and buy a desktop platform part for the same or better real-world performance.
If you're buying HEDT, then you're buying for a specific task. If a given CPU is generally good or not doens't matter a pair of foetid dingoes kidneys if it's not fast in the task you;re actually doing. e.g. super-awesome Blender and Cinebench runs bean naff-all when you're going to be spending all day running FEA simulations, or amazing AVX512 performance may not matter if your program does not use AVX512 extensions, etc.
While a lot of enthusiast builds may be a thin veneer of justification wrapped over "I WANT TO MAKE MY BENCHMARK NUMBERS BIGGER TO HAVE BIGGER NUMBERS. THE BIGGEST NUMBERS", in reality that's a miniscule fraction of the total market.
If your use case is one of the [increasingly short] list where it's the 'Right tool for the Job'™️, or if you have an x299 workstation/pc already, then bit recommended it.
But outside of that ever-shrinking list, it's really not for you.
See and that is our issue here. There is no asterisk next to the "recommended" award at the end of the article. I think only products with appeal to a broader part of the intended market (i.e. GPUs for low/med/high end builds, gaming mice vs. MMORPG mice, mechanical keyboards vs. rubberdome keyboards, etc.) should get a "recommended" award. This product is not bad per se, but its uses are quite niche and thus it doesn't deserve an award. IMO, obviously.
Its intended market is HEDT, in HEDT it is better than whatever else is out there for the same money, how could it not be recommended.
Ryzen 9 blurs lines with a HEDT processor but has its limitations because it is not a HEDT on platform and nor does it have the trappings that come with a HEDT platform.
i don't come around much anymore, since tim, bindi and the old crew are gone...i guess i can't say what goes for a recommended award and all that these days...but if you have to overclock the snot out of it, stick it in a freezer, power it with a dedicated breaker box and only use a few dedicated apps...well, the old crew wouldn't give it an award, they'd just say...if you do those things, have a look, but for the most part, there are better options for the majority...and thats what awards are for...unless your biased...so no, im not wrong...but if it helps you sleep better at night with those intel ad dollars in your budget, go on then
That is the thing though, with HEDT stuff it is rather common to buy them for a small number of specific applications.
Separate names with a comma.