Equipment Lens/flash recommendations?

I'm not expert but I personally would suggest a wait-and-see approach on the flash. I'm yet to be disappointed with the on-board flash on my 400d, so unless you have specific requirements, I'd invest in glass before investing in flash.

I can rely on RTT to slap me if I'm steering you wrong

 

Sounds like a sensible approach. I know my onboard flash is crap (350d) and my 10-22 doesnt even work with the flash, but since i so rarely need the my flash i've not bothered investing either, and probably wont until (if) my requirements change.

 

why doesn't your 10-22 work with a flash?

Of ciurse, it probably makes sense to wait on the flash either way. I've felt that there have been situations where an external flash would have helped, but it's probably not an immediate need for the short term.

 

Probably because at an angle as wide as 10mm, the on-camera flash won't be powerful enough to fill the area, so you'll get a nice spot-light effect with a halo of darkness around your centered subject.

A lot of people are fine with the on-board flash, but personally, I hate it. I hate how it strobes in low-light to find focus, and how it makes faces all white and unnatural. Flash tends to bring out the faces (or subjects) and a harsh shadow. Also, it makes people look bad, highlighting every imperfection not normally see-able by the naked eye. On top of that, you'll often get red eye to boot.

I swear by my hot-shoe flash gun, and if you can afford it, it is most definitely a worthy investment after you've seen the results.

 

The lens + hood casts a shadow on your photo because the flash is so close to the body.

 

It's even worse with the hood too...

And, as Amon said - indoors at 10mm is so wide that you get spotlight effect + huge big shadows

 

trust me, pop-up flash sucks once you own a decent hot-shoe flash. As I said before in this thread, I use the canon 430EX, and I couldn't live without it anymore. Every time I need to shoot people, in bright daylight, contrasts, the 430 comes with me. Fill-in flash ability == a joy.

oh and by the way, external flashes normally only start to work well at 17mm. Wider than that, the flash just can't cope well anymore.

 

Ah ok, I interpreted that as the flash wasn't firing when you had the 10-22 mounted. I've experienced the same effect when I was using some macro filters on my old point+shoot.

So... sounds like it might be worth just going for both right now, especially as I've never really been that satisfied with the onboard flash. Like you've all said, it's quite spotlight-ey and leaves pretty hard shadows. Would a diffuser also be worthwhile, or wait on that (I've seen the Sto-Fen and the Gary Fong lightsphere, both look like decent choices)?

Makes sense that the flash wouldn't be especially effective at the really wide angles (especially without a diffuser or using it as a bounce flash), but I'd probably be using the wider angles (once I get the proper lens) primarily outdoors for landscapes, and I doubt a flash is going to do much a mile away from the subject.

 

Diffusers might be worthwhile, but not necessary. Perhaps pick one up off eBay for cheap, as camera stores tend to market those pieces of rubber at a fairly high price, and it's essentially just Tupperware that fits your lense.

Personally, I don't have a diffuser, and have yet to find the need for one yet. You can always get adventurous and experiment with home made bounces and diffusers.

 

Sounds reasonable. I understand that the 430EX has one of those cheezy slide-out-flip-down mini-diffusers built in so I can at least see if that or a white card helps at all before I go spend a bit more cash. There's always the disadvantage with the diffusers that you need to drive it harder to get the same light since it's behind the plastic, which sucks down batteries faster too. Plus it does the (infra?)red-light instead of strobing for the autofocus, right?

Anyways - something like this look about right?



Mind you, I'll probably go through the Bit-tech shopping thing to find the best prices (at least between B+H and Amazon, as I'd rather avoid places I don't really know or haven't been recommended), but does that look about right for what I should order for now?

 

I personally would prefer to get a wide angle before a tele. I've gotton all my lenses just a few weeks apart and I must say I regret not getting a wider tele (10-22) before the 70-200. I would stil buy it later on, but I'd use a extreme wide angle alot more then the tele. So now I'm saving up for the 10-22, but would have prefered it the other way around. Also, I'd like to replace the F1.8 with a F1.4. And add a flash somewhere in the future (430ex), haven't used a flash much though..

L

 

The flip-out diffuser isn't exactly what you think it is. It wasn't designed to soften the light, but instead, it was designed to distribute the light for wider angle lenses. Yes, it has the red matrix guide thing for nighttime AF. The only problem is that you can't enable the red-light only, you have to have the entire flash on, which makes low-light, flash-less photography with a tripod a complicated procedure, as you'd have to focus with the flash on, hold the focus by switching to MF, turning the flash off, then take your shot.

 

What scq says about the flash is correct. The flip-out thingie is for shots that go wider than, say, 20mm, but it doesn't bring much.

I ALWAYS use a diffuser (omnibounce) when I use my flash. In other words, when I bought the diffuser I put it on the flash and it didn't come off since, only for some test shots right after I bought it. It makes a lot of difference, especially for indoors party/event shots, since it softens the hard flash light considerably.

The flash is more than powerful enough to cope with the bit of light loss the diffuser creates, for 99% of your flash shots it won't cause any problems. Only when the flash needs to flash at 100% of its capacity, you'll have a slighty lower effect because the diffuser takes away some light.

 

on the 30D you can disable flash output but keep AF assist via the custom functions. are you sure this is not available on the lower models?

 

Looks like yet another reason for me to upgrade my 350D. I'll wait for a 40D revision, since I'm looking forward to the sensor cleaning features to reach the 30D range. Also, while I understand MP isn't everything, it always feels good to know that you have more megapixels than the low-end model.

 

didn't you hear? automatic sensor cleaning is useless!!
giottos rocket air blower == win.

 

Damn.

 

Re: flash guns, why not look at the Sigma EX DG Super? It's basically got the features of the 580EX but at the price of the 430. At least in UK anyway.

 

While not a Canon user, I would pretty much give the opposite advice as everyone else on the flash. Get the flash and learn to use it effectively. It will open up a lot of interesting things for you. Especially if you move it off camera. A lot of people are afraid of the flash. But I think learning to use it correctly gives a whole lot more understanding of how light, and the camera, works. It lets you really begin to understand what shutter speed does to ambient light and how aperture interacts with distance from the light source. It can show you how hard light fits your needs vs. soft, diffuse light. In the beginning everyone thinks that dim rooms mean high ISO, low shutter speeds, and wide open. Even now I am surprised that I find ISO 200-400, 50th-80th@f/5.6 works like a champ in any dark room. Especially with low ceilings. But they really shine in daylight, where you can shut the ambient light down a bit and use fill flash, giving you nice dark blue skies with contrasty clouds and yet have your subjects lit with some pop. Don't be fooled by the size of the flashes. I have 2 SB-800's and they can pump out more light then I ever imagined. SO much so that I am thinking of getting 2 more.

I know available light is classic and easy(ish), but getting the hang of small, portable, and relatively cheap light sources makes for a fun and dynamic shooting style. Just see http://strobist.blogspot.com/ to see what I mean.

Oh and while the 430 is a good place to start, it lacks a PC sync port should you decide to move it off camera. And since Canon doesn't have Nikons sexy wireless CLS ( blatant dig, but it really works and some good natured piss taking is needed here and there) you have fewer options for remote triggering.

Edit: Firehed-The normal focus range of my flash is 24-105mm, the flip down diffuser sets it to 17mm and the pop on (sto-fen) sets it to 14mm. While the pop on diffuser work to soften the light a bit, you'll find that bouncing the light softens it a lot more. Softer light is about the apparent size of the light source. The sto-fen diffuser gives a much bigger area that is illuminated, and the light sphere an even bigger one. But a wall, white shirt, folding reflector are all bigger still. you can even use a flash gun in a softbox. I have seen awesome work done with just 2 SB-800's fired through a huge silk scrim, turning 2 little flashes into a full body length soft light source. combined with what nikon calls FP high sync flash, it made a fantastic key light at a sunset model shoot. The high shutter speeds shut down the sunset giving the deep reds and purples, making the sun the rim light for her hair, while the model looked like she was lit with 2 1000w lights. I would get the sto-fen, it's cheap and an easy fix for parties and the like. but don't stop there.

 

Sorry, what was that? I didn't hear you over all that noise, Nikon boy!

Regarding the flashes - Yeah, Nikon's system is supposed to be better, but you can still use Pocket Wizards and other nice bits for Canons. You can get dirt cheap wireless kits off eBay. They might not be 100% reliable but they're still OK. Or the Sigma EX DG Super/Canon 580 (and maybe the 430, can't remember) are all capable of being triggered by the on-camera flash.