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News Microsoft blocks Linux from Windows 8 ARM hardware

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by brumgrunt, 16 Jan 2012.

  1. Snips

    Snips I can do dat, giz a job

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    But let's be honest, the only player in town is Apple. It will pick up once Win8 comes out, just as long as it's worth it.
     
  2. Icy EyeG

    Icy EyeG Controlled by Eyebrow Powers™

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    It depends on the market. Here in Portugal, Android tablets were a best seller this Christmas, specially those that had a low price compared to the iPad.
     
  3. Snips

    Snips I can do dat, giz a job

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    but it's a harder sell because the lines gets blurry between a mobile OS or a full OS like most desktop and laptops. Netbooks couldn't get started until WinXP was added to most and then Win7 helped them finish. Droid tablets are selling because of the mobileOS. When people get the option of something they have on their laptop and desktop, that's when it will pick up. You will still get cheap tablets but some will maybe add some competition to iPads.
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    It used to be, until Android Gingerbread, which I think has the edge over iOS when it comes to tablets (on the small screen, iOS won out --until Windows Mobile 7 which I think is like garlic bread: taste it, and you realise it's the future). And the latest Asus tablets look pretty good.

    I'm really liking what Microsoft is doing with the Win8 Metro interface --if it can keep CPU requirements and battery life reasonable! I have a Motion Computing LE1600 tablet with a Centrino and XP and although it is a beautifully made piece of kit, it has a 3 hour battery life and playing a Youtube video causes it to overheat. No, no, no, no, no...
     
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  5. Madness_3d

    Madness_3d Bit-Tech/Asus OC Winner

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    WM7 to me is just awful. I've tried it and it just feels like it was designed by a child. I use my Phone for srs business and all the colours and squares look like they'd be more at home on CBBC than on my screen. The whole Metro interface in my opinion is just a massive step in the wrong direction, I think consumers will see this and W8 will be Vista v2.
     
  6. Snips

    Snips I can do dat, giz a job

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    I think WP7 is fanastic. It's simple, original and well thought out. The only problem with WP7 has been the lack of apps which has been kicked up a gear since the last update to 7.5 and Nokia coming onboard.

    I also use mine for business and I have everything at my control and it looks a lot more class than most droid phones and dare I say the all conquering iPhone
     
  7. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag New Member

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    in what category? phones, tablets? android is starting to beat them there. desktop operating systems? microsoft wins there. arm support? linux beats apple and MS there, combined - and that, to me, is what spawned this issue in the first place. linux's ARM support is immense and competitive. the second windows 8 for ARM doesn't do something that windows was able to do since XP, there are going to be pissed-off and confused customers. since many of these people would be forced to find an alternative to the program they are used to, they might as well switch to an OS that has been complete on ARM for a while.
     
  8. l3v1ck

    l3v1ck Fueling the world, one oil well at a time.

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    Could you install Win8 on one HDD and Linux on another. Would that work if you altered the boot order in the BIOS?
    I'm sure motherboard manufacturers could come up with a way round this, but would MS alter Win8 to recognise that hardware and black list it?
     
  9. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Apart from the fact that I kind of like the whole slightly retro-ish feel :)p) of WP7 I think that the pretty icons that iOS and Android sport are hardly more corporate-looking. The WP7 interface is highly functional on a small screen and won't tax more basic hardware --which is what you need on mobile devices. It scales up well to a tablet. Now they getting away from the primary colours a bit I think it will be functional, minimalistic, clean. And versatile. A bit like Apple used to be before it drove over the skeuomorphic cliff.
     
  10. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    You mixed up what looks childish (iPhone) and what does not (Windows Phone 7).
     
  11. pendragon

    pendragon I pickle they

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    Just being counted as another voice that doesn't give a crap about this ...

    I *am* rather interested to see what changes they make to Win8 once it goes to beta.. at present it seems to be a fabulous OS for tablets/phones, but I wouldn't plan on migrating my main desktop PC to it just yet...
     
  12. aradreth

    aradreth New Member

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    Whilst it is possible to sign linux/android in the same manner it wont work for many reasons.

    The problem here is that manufacturers would need to include the extra keys on the MB or you wont be able to boot into your OS of choice and lets be honest most manufacturers wont bother including multiple keys.

    The bigger problem however is that each distro would require a unique key and it would remove the option of custom kernels for tinkerers/developers and those specific needs/wants as they would never have access to the key.

    Of course you could argue why not have a public key that all linux users could default to but that defeats the purpose of a using signed kernel in the first place!

    I hope the EU gets its act together and goes after Microsoft for being abusing its position again as the dominant player in the OS market as this action can't really be justified in logical way.


    Oh and for those of you who don't care please remember that competition drives innovation and improvement so even if you don't personally use or like linux/BSD/etc. you benefit from its existence.
     
  13. general22

    general22 New Member

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    How is this any different to various Android manufacturers running locked bootloaders. If you don't like it then don't buy it.
     
  14. karx11erx

    karx11erx New Member

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    This is an incredible attempt to strongarm a big part of an industry Microsoft doesn't have any part in the achievements of which. Taking an entire industry hostage with a "certification" that has nothing to do with the capabilities or security of their products. What does their bloody certificate have to do with the innovation that has been put into ARM devices, or their capability to work inside (low power) computing devices like smart phones or tablets? Nothing. Microsoft is trying to hijack an entire hardware industry for their purposes, with something as artificial and arbitrary as a "certificate" for their next OS that doesn't make any substantial statement about the actual usability of the hardware. Microsoft = Criminals? This makes me think so.
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2012
  15. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

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    they are not locking out linux, they want people to be secure, someone has already stated elsewhere on the web, it would take about a weeks work to create secure boot code for linux.
     
  16. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Basically, because people want to be secure. As ordinary folk are becoming increasingly dependent on computer tech for their communications and financial transactions, they want their devices to work glitch-free and without worry of hijacking by malware or viruses. Ordinary people don't worry about the freedom to mod and tweak as we do. They just want their stuff to work reliably and safely.
     
  17. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    The issue with this is exactly the same as with unsigned drivers in x64 Windows, and even worse.

    In x64 Windows Vista/7, your drivers need to be signed, or they won't get loaded, and if your app depends on that driver, it won't run. Which is a issue for free apps, because the driver signing key costs a lot.

    With Windows 8 and secure boot, it gets even worse. Not only your driver will have to be signed, but Windows 8 will have to pass your driver signature through the UEFI secure boot chain as a valid signature to even allow your driver to load. Depending on how it will work in the final products, it could easily disable alternate drivers. What i mean ?

    1) UEFI contains the key for Microsoft - all Microsoft signed stuff will work.
    2) UEFI contains the key for specific Windows 8 OEM version - only that OEM version will work, you won't be able to use retail copies either - this could easily happen on Windows 8 ARM tablets.

    The next step is loading the drivers, and this is where you can again hit a issue :
    1) UEFI contains the key for Microsoft/Windows 8, and then Windows passes through all signatures you allowed in the OS back to the UEFI secure boot, and this way you will achieve same level of driver usage as with current Windows 7, with a bit of additional security until someone figures out how to cheat their way inside the allowed signatures list.
    2) UEFI contains the key for OS and for all allowed drivers - this could easily lead to issues like USB sound card not working, because it is not in the hardcoded key list.

    In the end, secure boot doesn't bring too much security if you want it work without issues; and it makes too much problems if you want it to achieve real security.
     
  18. Snips

    Snips I can do dat, giz a job

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    Let's see it working before you start calling it Vista2
     
  19. leslie

    leslie Just me!

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    Considering how the interface works at present, it already is Vista 2.

    Seriously, that start menu does not work on a laptop or desktop.
     
  20. ShakeyJake

    ShakeyJake My name is actually 'Jack'.

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    Hey, if its as heavy-handed as it looks it might actually mean more FOSS users.
     
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