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Other Next-gen consoles and M&K support

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Bede, 19 Jan 2012.

  1. Bede

    Bede Well-Known Member

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    There are 2 barriers to console gaming ever being superior to PC gaming.

    1. Weak hardware becoming very apparent at this stage in their life cycle.
    2. Terrible controllers

    The next generation of consoles is quite an exciting prospect. They will of course be built on cut-down, old tech (just as with the current generation). Consider however what more than one game designer has said over the last few years, about their frustration with DirectX and being unable to code 'direct-to-metal' for the PC. Coding for an intermediary software layer that has to run across a myriad of different hardware configurations is vastly less efficient than coding straight to the hardware. Moreover the evident ease with which the very limited hardware of the Xbox and PS3 is now exploited to the max should give you hope for what game developers will be able to do with the next-gen consoles.

    This generation of Playstation and Xbox have become as much a media center as a gaming platform - the trend is clearly towards all-in-one entertainment systems for the next generation. It is not in Microsoft's interests to lose the licensing fees from Windows (and proprietary software) by creating a console with a web browser and Office on it, there are very few people who buy a PC solely for gaming. It would not cost them a penny as anyone switching over to console gaming would likely still require a PC. Moreover the PC gaming market is currently worth, at a rough guess, well over a hundred million pounds globally - not something to be sniffed at, even for vast corporations like Microsoft and Sony. If you add in MMOs that figure goes through the roof!


    It seems to me that the addition of mouse and keyboard support to a console is a small thing with potentially a big gain for gaming in general. Consoles have a huge userbase, which means more people for you to dominate on Starcraft 3, Battlefield 4 etc. More people for you to play Arma 4 with as well.

    There are serious issues like the immaturity of their audience, the outrageous price of their games, the unwillingness of Sony and Microsoft to allow dedicated servers with admin control, the lengthy certification process for patches etc. These cannot and should not be ignored - next generation consoles can learn more from PCs than just what hardware was good a few years ago.

    That said, if the next generation solves the graphical limitations of the current, and adds in M+K support I would seriously consider stopping buying expensive bits for my computer and paying £400 for a box that would suffice for all my gaming needs for the next 7 or so years. I suspect many others would too.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Tomhyde1986

    Tomhyde1986 New Member

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    I agree with a lot of your points.

    Consoles and PCs are getting closer to each other in terms of functionality with each generation. The deal breaker for me is the mouse and keyboard. I really dislike controllers or rather I hate having to use one. On many PC games you can easily use a console controller. For some reason console manufacturers are unwilling to let it go the other way. I see consoles getting dedicated mouse and keyboard support when one of the big manufacturers decides they want the console to become something of a mini PC and have the likes of Office and other applications.

    The PC platform has always seemed to me to be the more progressive or the two sides. The PC embraces its flexibility as a strength and seems to attract a more mature and intelligent user base. I am generalising massively but I've had far more truly god awful experiences with players on Xbox live than I have had online with my PC.

    The downside to the PC is the massively varying hardware and the attached level of technical know how when it comes to how they work. I would argue building a PC isn't hard but the custom PC building demographic is tiny compared to the "casual console" crowd. Most of my mates who own consoles have no clue what a CPU looks like let alone how to install one and nor do they want to learn. They want something they can turn on and it works. And you know what? That's fine.

    In closing both sides have stuff to learn from each other. I just wish they would learn to embrace each other. Then gaming would really make some radical leaps forward.
     
  3. longweight

    longweight Possibly Longbeard.

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    I agree with a number of points about this but what games have outrageous prices?
     
  4. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    Nah, the controllers are awesome..... just not for FPS or strategy games. Controllers are better than KB and mouse for:

    Sports games
    Flying games
    Driving games

    Personally, I find the 360 controller to be the best, and I use one to fly the heli's in BF3.
     
  5. IvanIvanovich

    IvanIvanovich будет глотать вашу душу.

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    What I wish Microsoft would do on next console: Use an x86-64 quad cpu, the top end of gpu, like 580 2gb memory, 8gb system memory, base the new Xbox OS on minwin environment. So in otherwords just make a f*cking single board non upgradeable PC with a console oriented front end for media and games loading. This way both the 'console' and PC use the same api, same game disc / direct download service, everything.
    For input, allow any usb keyboard / mouse that does not need a special driver.
    Such a move could lead to some better more innovative games if they have less limitation. Encourage move to x64 so games have access to more resource for more advanced ai, bigger maps, bigger more detailed textures, etc, etc...
    Then going forward that 'console' spec becomes universal minimum PC requirement, easy.
    Of course they won't do this in a million years.
     
  6. Bede

    Bede Well-Known Member

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    This I just can't see happening, it would push the price of the box up too high. People see a games console as an entertainment center and their PC as their workstation. Most people are willing to buy two different £400 boxes but not one £800 box. Add to that the fact that Microsoft is unlikely to allow Sony to Windows to install on the Playstation, as well as the fact that there will always be a strong demand for a work-only computer and it gets less and less likely.


    @longweight:

    http://www.game.co.uk/en/games/xbox-360/
    http://www.game.co.uk/en/games/playstation-3/
    http://store.steampowered.com

    Compare these 3 basic examples. How often do the console stores have massive sales?


    @Parge: I think perhaps for flying the joystick is still the best, while for driving the wheel+pedals combo is. I agree though that the thumb-stick controllers are very versatile bits of equipment, and can do all these things very well for a much lower cost.

    For flying games I think it depends largely on the type of game. Sim = keyboard, mouse and joystick. HAWX = controller.

    For driving I genuinely prefer a K+M to a 360 controller, but then I grew up on the keyboard so am much more comfortable with it.
     
  7. IronDoc

    IronDoc New Member

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    I'm really doubt the demand for kb and mouse is there; consoles are primarily used from couches etc, not a desk as with most pcs.
     
  8. Showerhead

    Showerhead New Member

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    I could see a market though if you advertised a next gen console as also a home p.c. replacement, maybe for a small extra charge. Most people only use their pc's for browsing the web, writing e-mails and posting things. Given the oppertunity to replace the family laptop with a device which they were going to buy anyway for an extra cost i could see people taking up the offer.

    IIRC doesn't the current PS3 support m&kb? Just because the console supports it doesn't necessarily mean game developers will utilise it.
     
  9. longweight

    longweight Possibly Longbeard.

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    I would not want to use a mouse and keyboard with a console. I play console games when I cannot be arsed to play proper games :p And if you do go to mouse and keyboard how to do play multiplayer when your mates are round?
     
  10. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    This ^. Using a keyboard and mouse on the couch is a pain. People who are used to controllers don't like using keyboard and mouse controls either from my experience. If they had to play on the PC they would use a controller if available.

    Yes it does. You can use them to navigate the OS. I seem to remember one of the Unreal games supported it in game but it was a very crude map to controller.
     
  11. Dwarfer

    Dwarfer New Member

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    Controllers are good for racing/flying games.

    Keyboard & mouse for everything else!
     
  12. Bede

    Bede Well-Known Member

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    Right now, yes. However this is thinking about marketing consoles to the 'hardcore' PC gamers, more specifically those that make serious money for game devs - MMO players. There is nothing stopping you from connecting a console to a monitor and sitting 18" away from it right now other than the weak graphics.

    Next-gen will have the hardware to avoid all the upscaling and other devious tricks console devs make use of. Plugging a console into a computer screen on a desk could be a valid choice, making it much easier to use a keyboard and mouse.

    It would not be about getting console players to use M+K - though undoubtedly anyone who considered themselves a 'pro' COD player would have to in order to keep up! - rather it would be about tempting over the millions of PC gamers to console.
     
  13. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    Does that market exist though? The main incentive for a console over a PC is fixed (lower) cost of entry, stable hardware environment for X years and ease of use. Where is the appeal for the PC hardcore. I would also class hardcore PC gamers and MMO players as two separate entities.
     
  14. ulfar

    ulfar holy s**t, i can change this?

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    it's not a matter of replacing the controller, just adding alternatives.
    the ps3 supports kb+m and a few developers have adapted that, UT and hopefully dust514.
    given that there are a few products out there (eagle eye converter, frag fx and whatnot) that convert/replace the controller, it gives the developers a hint that maybe they should implement the usage of kb+m to reach even more players.
     
  15. IronDoc

    IronDoc New Member

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    Yeah, fair comment, but at that point, is it functionally different from a prebuilt pc in any meaningful way? I suppose you would get better graphics at a lower price point, but that in itself would need the game to optimised for the console raising costs.
     
  16. Kiytan

    Kiytan Shiny

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    I can't see KB+M ever replacing controllers on consoles, as there are just so many hurdles to overcome for what I think is very little gain, not to mention you generally want a controller anyway for some games (driving, beat 'em up e.t.c e.t.c)
    - Theres the fact they would both need to be wireless, and cheap wireless mice are notoriously not good for gaming
    - using a mouse from a sofa is bloody awkward
    - backwards compatibility could be quite awkward (not impossible, but an added inconvenience)
    - split screen could become quite crowded quite quickly
     

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