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Build Advice No Idea where to start...

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by sjhujh, 9 Feb 2016.

  1. sjhujh

    sjhujh Member

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    ...So I'm something of a lapsed PC owner and Bit-Tech poster...

    After I built my last machine I kind of stuck my head in the sand and just got on with making the most of my then beast of a machine... but a few years ago it died and as I had a PS3/4 and a swanky MacBook Pro off work I never bothered replacing my dead PC. Then XCOM2 happened and now I want a PC again. Playing it on my MacBook just isn't the same.

    But I have absolutely no idea where to start! So what I was hoping for was advice.

    I definitely want to build in a Silverstone FT03 and after having abit of a nose around have settled on the best variant of a 970 I can afford but the other components I'm a bit less certain of... So what I wanted to get was some pointers of hardware I should consider for building into this case.

    The only stuff that I think I may be able to salvage from my dead PC is the heatsink really but then again I'm not sure if thats worth salvaging... It was a thermalright TRUE black...
     
  2. sjhujh

    sjhujh Member

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    Oh sorry I forgot to say I was hoping to get the build done for about 700 quid...

    And looking at the specs of my P182 I can fit a mATX system in there and move that to the fortress later maybe....

    Oh and I don;t need to budget for HDD's etc as I'll just dust off my old ones and re use them so the main focus is Mobo, memory cooling, GFX and PSU....
     
    Last edited: 9 Feb 2016
  3. Dan848

    Dan848 New Member

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    For that kind of money you can build a very good gaming computer with new parts, especially if you do not need a new monitor or operating system [such as Windows 7 Pro 64-bit].

    Motherboard: Almost any Z170 or Z170A [I prefer full size, not small]
    Power Supply: Seasonic 550 watt gold or platinum series [80 Plus certified ratings]
    CPU: Intel i5 series, at least an i5 6500 to save money for a more powerful video card
    Video Card: Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 [or 970 Ti if you can find a good price]
    RAM: DDR4, Minimum 8GB, 16GB if you can afford it.
    Hard Drive: Western Digital Black 4TB, partition the first 500GB for the OS, games and programs for more access speed. It is a very fast drive.
    CPU Cooler: There are some acceptable coolers for 15 to 20 pounds for non-overclocked CPUs, such as the one recently reviewed here http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=298901 You can also check Pricepicker, however, I think prices are U.S. dollars https://pcpartpicker.com/parts/cpu-cooler/#X=2044,3540

    You may need a new case if the CPU cooler is too tall or video card too long for your computer case. Look around for a case with the right size. Measure the interior of your case or one you need to purchase, video card length and CPU cooler height.

    This will give you a good start I believe. There are many options you can choose from within your budget.
     
  4. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    i5 6400 155 quid
    8GB 2400MHz DDR4 50 quid
    H170M Plus 82 quid
    GTX 970 300 quid
    CM Seidon 120V v2 40 quid
    256GB Samsung 850 EVO 65 quid. Throw out your 10 year old HDD :p
    CX500 PSU 50 quid

    742. Can probably shave 10 quid off the CPU cooler and go for a plain heatsink. Or, an i3-6100 for 40 quid less. Cost between Skylake mid-i5 and Haswell mid-i5 is pretty negligible and might was well buy DDR4 new now rather than DDR3.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 10 Feb 2016
  5. sjhujh

    sjhujh Member

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    Cheers for the replies guys, so

    I was planning on dipping my toes back into the hedonistic waters of OC'ing so I think a good cooler is going to be a must... I carried on doing a bit of reading and have narrowed it down to a combination of these bits....

    Mobo: Asus Z170-K,Gigabyte Z170XP-SLI , MSI Intel Z170A TOMAHAWK (veering towards the Asus as my old mobo was an Asus and we had a beautiful relationship) The reviews for all three of these don't really pick one out as a clear winner over the others...

    CPU: i5-6500 (maybe bump it up to 6600K for ease of OC? Opinions?

    Memory: Corsair 16GB DDR4 Red Vengeance LPX 2400MHz Memory Kit for Skylake

    GFX: EVGA GTX 970 SC

    PSU: Corsair 650 Watt RMx.... Mostly because again I had Corsair in my dead PC (which i might see if I can still use as it was a 750 watt, which I actually won off this very site!)

    Case: gonna stick with my P182 to keep initial cost lower then eventually swap it for a Fractal design Define R5 (the P182 is pretty scratched from being moved around during my undergrad days)

    Cooler not sure really.... Perhaps one of those premade water coolers all the young'uns are using?


    So with this spec I'm looking at around 628 to get me back up and running.
     
  6. Dan848

    Dan848 New Member

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    The CX series of PSUs are basic models used for bare minimum requirements, and therefore the type that many OEMs use - because they are inexpensive, unfortunately this is because they use inferior components compared to higher quality PSUs. And, quality is what you want for stability over the years and for overclocking.

    ___________________________________________________________________________


    Probably the most overlooked part of a build is the power supply, and it is the most important component. The one you selected is a good one. You can find a review of the 750 watt version here:

    http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/corsair-rm750x-review/all/1/

    With small nm construction used in Intel CPUs for the last 4 years, and especially the 14nm current generation, there is no need for water cooling. A good air cooler is less expensive and will cool adequately for overclocking the Intel i5 6600K you mentioned. Remember, overclocking depends upon several factors including the CPU itself, some overclock better than others.

    The average 6600K should have no problem overclocking to 4.4GHz, some people can only get to 4.2GHz, some 4.6GHz and a lucky few can go higher on air. Personally, I use temperatures as a measure of longevity [keeping a computer for a long time] and 62 degrees C is the maximum I feel comfortable with. And, temperatures will be influenced by voltage. Higher voltages will be needed for higher overclocks, beginning around 4GHz [this is also a matter of luck, again, some CPUs are better overclockers than others - I mention this because someone may argue the 4GHz threshold I gave].

    Most of todays demanding games are primarily using the video card, however, some need a fast CPU. And, just as importantly is the CPU being fast enough to feed the video card. An i5 6500 will be fast enough for a GTX 970. Regarding CPU speed and overclocking, generally speaking, there are diminishing returns for overclocking beyond 4.0GHz, just as there are diminishing returns at some point when overclocking any video card.

    Cooling.

    A good air cooler is all you need for overclocking an Intel i5 6600K. Here is a link to an easily understood review. The reviewer made an error, however, he corrected it at the end of the video with written information on the screen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfdeaIMK2cU

    I wanted to mention overclocking just a little because you seem to be entertaining the idea. At the same time, I do not want to write a book on how to overclock. There are many good web sites that address that and some are on YouTube for specific products.

    Motherboards.

    Care has to be taken here because some motherboards within a company line are less likely to give you fits or be defective in certain areas. I used to be an Asus fan, and you can still get a good one, the same with Gigabyte. However, some are better suited at doing specific jobs than others.

    For overclocking I have been using Gigabyte for many years. For extended or years of constant overclocking I prefer NOT using any "gaming" named board by them. Also, if you are going to overclock constantly I suggest at least 9 mosfits around the CPU [phases], 6 of those phases will be for the CPU. The more phases the cooler they run because the power load is split among the mosfits or phases. Heat kills.

    The motherboard you have selected, I would not overclock an Intel I5 6600K CPU beyond 4.4GHz, beyond that you would need active cooling over the VRM [to keep it cool], or at least a high air flow case.

    If you want to overclock at 4.4GHz or higher for an extended period I suggest you take a close look at something like the Gigabyte Z170X UD5 found here:

    http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7326/gigabyte-z170x-ud5-intel-z170-motherboard-review/index.html
     
  7. gupsterg

    gupsterg Member

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    @sjhujh,

    A bit of catch up first ;) .

    What a shame the Q6600 died, pretty good for windows use still IMO. I rehoused my Q6600 rig to a Fractal Design Core 2300, a) cheap b) liked the way no drive cage in front of intake fans. Q6600 still OC'd to 3.555GHz with the TRUE Rev.A, the Corsair Dominator TwinX 4GB@1058MHz 2T. Flogged the Seasonic S12 600W due to age really, found a great deal on Cooler Master V650 (Enhance OEM). Recently swapped the Sapphire Toxic HD5850 1GB, for a Tri-X 290 OC edition for f@h action ( ;) ). Added a Crucial MX100 256GB for bit more pep for OS use.

    Amazed the CPU still holds the OC from practically day 1 from all those years back at launch of G0. Even prior to picking up the Tri-290 OC I had ended up in a situation where I had 3x Hawaii cards (Sap.Tri-X 290 STD, Asus DCUII 290X & Vapor-X 290X) and I put the Q6600 to fold for 24/48hrs straight several times with 1 of those cards.

    Next :dremel: the Silverstone TJ 06 (link to post)

    My build circa Q1 2015.

    i5 4690K
    Asus Maximus VII Ranger (£133.49, flogged FP via ebay on 50% off fees, net me ~£38)
    Kingston HyperX Savage 2400MHz DDR3 16GB (2x8GB) (was £95)
    CoolerMaster V850 (£85 Scan special)
    ThermalRight Archon SB-E X2 (2nd ebay £13.50, came with TY-141, all swapped to TY-143 £7@Amazon)
    Samsung 840 EVO (£39.91)

    1st i5 hit 4.4GHz CPU @ 1.18V and 4.6GHz@1.26V. 4.6GHz temps bit high so settled for 4.4GHz. Then got a 2nd on crazy deal via Bespoke offers (link). This one hit 4.9GHz CPU @ 1.255V 4.4GHz Cache @ 1.10V, RAM@2400MHz 1T ( :D ) for 24/7 use. Also done 5.05@1.26V, 5.098GHz @ 1.29V and 5.1GHz@ 5.198GHz @ 1.314v :jawdrop: .

    Back to topic ;), if I was going Skylake I'd go Asus Maximus VIII Ranger, CustomPC group mobo test showed it to be a great board. UEFI is great IMO on the Asus boards, in that group test MSI boards didn't fare so well (generally) in getting a high CPU freq plus IIRC required more VCORE for an OC. Also I've noted some on OCN state MSI/Gigabyte UEFI was not as intuitive for options, again others prefer it. Done some builds for others using MSI/Gigabyte and they're not bad but still prefer Asus :D .

    MSI did cashback recently and been giving free items with boards, Asus also did cashback few months back. Best deal at the time with CB was Ranger sold by CCL which had a free item, so potentially £84.

    Like me you got time to buy bits at "best prices", I'd try and nab a mobo first, RAM would be last on my list. It's cheap at present and may get cheaper (IIRC from what I read a few weeks back), even if it don't get cheaper you may snag a higher freq set for same monies. Recently seeing 3000MHz kits go for price of say lower speed kits. A GFX card again be as and when one come up and PSU.

    The CM V850 upwards are Seasonic OEM, even though didn't need 850W@£85 a cracking buy. Scan seem to do them every so often on either ebay or Today Only. The lower W are Enhance OEM, which have fared well (TPU / Jonnyguru 750W and 550W Bit Tech), I paid ~£60 for CM V650.

    IIRC you have a Corsair TX850W(V1)? you could run with that IMO. It is Haswell ready, so be fine for Skylake, even if it wasn't all it means IIRC is you can't use the newer low powered C-States. As it is a larger PSU doubt it got stressed at all and would think as draw had been way under it's rated components still good for your purpose. Rail design is good for how newer components focus more on 12V, this was another reason why it was time for me to sell the Seasonic S12 600W (2x18A 12V rails).

    Keep checking Amazon Warehouse deals as well for components, a week or 2 ago I picked up the Tri-X 290 OC for <£150 (new-damage box only :D ). Usually I do a live chat prior to purchase and CC have always agreed a 1yr warranty from them plus you have 30 day satisfaction guarantee with free return (also delivery ;) ). If you end up with a Hawaii/Grenada card check out my bios mod thread on OCN ;) .

    Look forward to reading about your new build :thumb:
     
    Last edited: 25 Feb 2016
  8. sjhujh

    sjhujh Member

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    Thanks for all the info!

    Scan have a today only on a bundle of the Ranger with a 6600K think I'm gonna pull the trigger on that and then start getting together my RAM etc
     
  9. Zoon

    Zoon Hunting Wabbits since the 80s

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    I would be surprised if you can't rescue your old PSU, they are usually pretty hardy things. Of course, it does depend exactly what died.
     
  10. sjhujh

    sjhujh Member

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    I have a feeling its the RAM that died as the system used to BSOD when I got into Windows.... When it did post but more often that not the system powered up but nothing came up on screen and all fans stayed at max...

    I took my OC off etc but at the time I wasn't so fussed about my PC so kinda didn't bother doing to much work to find out what went wrong and just mothballed the PC...

    Just asking Scan about their returns policy in case it takes a bit of time for me to get the rest of my stuff at prices I want to pay... Then I'll be on my way back to PC gaming nirvana.....
     
  11. gupsterg

    gupsterg Member

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    Last edited: 1 Mar 2016
  12. sjhujh

    sjhujh Member

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    **** son! Just dun ordered my Mobo and CPU...

    Think I'm gonna go with the Corsair RAM 16gig's and the Macho RevB (asked the dude at SCAN Customer Service if he knew of any heatsink and RAM slot compatibility issues and he said no)

    Then I just need to pin down the exact GFX card I want

    This was the RAM I was planning on gettting... but that Ripjaws Stuff looks pretty sweet....
     
    Last edited: 1 Mar 2016
  13. gupsterg

    gupsterg Member

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    Great the build is on! :D

    Google skylake ram scaling .

    I'd have paid the £11 premium for the G.Skill DDR4 3200MHz CL15 kit just as I like benching. Would I notice a real world difference in daily use vs the 2400MHz CL15 kit? definitely NO :) .

    Would I pay £85 for 3000MHz CL15 RAM, I think you can guess the answer ;) . That £19 can go towards say a better GPU to give you some real world performance you will make use of ;) .
     
    Last edited: 1 Mar 2016
  14. sjhujh

    sjhujh Member

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    oooh, for the same price as that Corsair set Novatech have the 16gb Ripjaws 3200mhz dual channel kits

    Although I did google Skylake Mem scaling and as obviously i'll be using discrete GFX stonkingly speedy memory isn;t as much of a issue for me... could spend the extra on a new boot SSD... That way I could source some DDR2 for the q6600 and maybe set it up as a light use home PC...
     
  15. gupsterg

    gupsterg Member

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    About over a year ago prior to i5 rig build I did think I'll just upgrade the Q6600 to 8GB + newer GPU and be enough. But as I wanted min R9 290 for detail/res I was gonna be intent on playing games for, CPU/Platform was major bottleneck.

    So based on research at the time for RAM your best bet to gain DDR2 is probably ebay / classifieds of forums (note I said forums ;) ).

    New you'll probably pay a) way to much for it in comparison for DDR3/4 b) very likely you'll only find low speed / bog std stuff.

    I'm using my Q6600 as a backup rig for desktop use / f@h. IMO still a cracking CPU for general windows use, I'd say for my and your uses 4GB be ample if you gonna replace it.

    Have you done some diagnosis on your rig? before throwing parts at it?

    My Q6600 still stable as a rock, I moved it into a cheap Fractal Design Core 2300 case with only 2x 120mm intake fans / 1x 120mm exhaust (all cheapo) and PSU 135mm exhaust. Plugged in the Vapor-X 290X (custom ROM), lowered OC to 3.4GHz due to increased heat output of 290X in case and done many long runs of f@h.

    Here is 70hrs+ continuous f@h main screen , log screen

    So long I used the Q6600 and drooled over newer hardware in CPC pages and now I've gone a bit nuts on HW purchases! LOL
     
  16. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

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    There is differences once you start going duel gpu and overclocking the CPU whilst using better memory that costs a few pound more at best. You can't compare memory prices from 2 different manufactures when trying to argue for savings.

    G Skill are a expensive brand. Comparing them to a cheaper brand would be very unfair comparison.

    I checked the difference myself last week and between 2 sets of corsair dominators 2400 and 3000 both at cl15 the dif was about £2 total
     
  17. gupsterg

    gupsterg Member

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    I'm not going by brand normal pricing :) , my suggestions are on basis of guiding OP to buy what is available at the time of purchase giving him best price to performance ratio :) .

    Currently on UK PC Parts picker Corsair 2400 CL16 is £63.14, G.Skill 2400 CL15 is £65.15.

    £2 extra for G.Skill CL15 has no premium IMO, by paying that £2 extra he's potentially gaining better bin'd RAM.

    Last week G.Skill 3200 CL 15 was cracking buy on pre-order, was there a premium; not IMO for what it was.

    [​IMG]

    IIRC when last week I saw that set for like frequency & CL for non promo sets of RAM Corsair we're similarly priced as G.Skill.

    Even when we read reviews / posts by members what OC headroom they got on a set of RAM it's not guaranteed you'll get it. This statement is not in context of "silicon lottery" but at times manufacturers change RAM IC on a set without any indication to buyer. I'm sure you would agree?

    Do you have any data to share what FPS gain will OP get for Dual GPU + OC'ing CPU with high freq. RAM so he can assess for price/performance ratio it is best buy?

    I did have quick search and wasn't finding anything and I would like to see it so better understand :) .
     
    Last edited: 2 Mar 2016
  18. sjhujh

    sjhujh Member

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    Hmm personally I'm liking the spec of that G Skill 16gb kit Gupsterg has linked to, the CL15 3200 G Skill set is in my opinion a bit expensive. Not sure I would necessarily notice or care about the lower latency.

    Over the Corsair I would prefer to buy G Skill and I have been looking since I started for a good G Skill set at a price I want to pay. As in my perception G Skill is a better brand than Corsair....

    But I have time to wait and see as this is a slow build with no immediate need for completion...

    Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the discussion and suggestions. As, as I said in my OP, I'm a lapsed PC builder and have been bringing myself up to date with the current state of things and so am learning as well as buying and building at the moment.
     
  19. gupsterg

    gupsterg Member

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    I'll be honest only recommending due to price point at present, if they were bigger % more expensive I'd not recommend them, even for the CL difference. Also if the Corsair RAM kit being compared to G.Skill was CL15 I'd have no hesitation buying that :) .

    TBH between the major brands I don't regard there to be huge enough difference to say I wouldn't go with one or the other. We all have "our" own set of triggers for purchase of "x" item.

    For example when doing my i5 build I wanted lowest possible height DIMMs, wanted max compatibility with air cooler. The Savage was pretty low as it comes for RAM with spreaders, keenly priced (IIRC cheapest set) and good spec & brand IMO; all those things triggered purchase :) .

    In the past I've had not so well known RAM as well, for example A-Data & Team Xtreem and main reason for buying was the particular RAM IC on the set TBH (luckily they were what IC I was after).
     
  20. Dan848

    Dan848 New Member

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    What motherboard are you going to get?
     

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