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News Nvidia announces GeForce RTX 2060

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by bit-tech, 7 Jan 2019.

  1. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I'm not putting words in your mouth, you said "is not going to be the route any sane developer goes down" and by saying sane developers would not do that, by extension, you're saying insane develops would.
     
  2. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    I was referring to development of end devices (i.e. GPUs) not to the standards. Hence the Triangle of Compromise sacrificing guaranteed compatibility.
     
  3. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    So in other words it's not the standards problem but the end devices.

    Besides that's all rather irrelevant as this isn't about X end devices manufacture support Y standard, this is about Nvidia claiming their going to support FreeSync when they're doing nothing of the sorts, they've made up their own standard called G-Sync "compatible".

    It's about Nvidia saying FreeSync isn't that good and has problems when it's their implementation that isn't that good and causing problems.
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2019
  4. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    I came here expecting all these comments to be about the crazy high price of a Low/Mid range card for the price of what High end Graphics cards once cost...

    So I'm here to say, who in the right mind would buy this? - For the same money, you'd be better off with an XB1X or PS4 Pro...
     
  5. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    ... Which is exactly why they've said they're only supporting a subset of monitors with everything else unsupported? They've very explicitly said they're not just adding general Freesync support.
    No implementation is going to make a bad Freesync monitor good. 48-Hz-60Hz is going to be 48Hz-60Hz regardless of GPU. A monitor's 'goodnes' is a separate issue to actual implementation bugs, of which AMD has also.
    Call me back when I can plug a console into a PCIe slot (inb4 someone posts some early 5th/6th gen console devkits).
     
  6. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    They're not adding FreeSync support, full stop.

    Freesync is an AMD brand name for their implementation of VESA's display port with adaptive sync, G-Sync "compatible" is Nvidia's brand name for their implementation of the same standard, an implementation that by their own admission doesn't work and has problems.
    Again with the personal judgment on what's good and bad, this isn't about what makes a good or bad VRR display, this is about Nvidia claiming to support FreeSync and then saying FreeSync isn't very good and has problems when it's Nvidia's own implementation that is the problem, Nvidia can't use FreeSync because it's an AMD brand name for their adaptive synchronization technology, it's trademarked.
     
  7. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Nitpick: Adaptive Sync is the name VESA has given to AMD's FreeSync technology, after AMD donated the technology to VESA years before it launched FreeSync itself. AMD hasn't implemented VESA's Adaptive Sync and called it FreeSync; VESA has implemented what became AMD's FreeSync and called it Adaptive Sync.

    Though, I'll grant you, the timeline is confusing: AMD donated the tech to VESA privately, then VESA added it to embedded DisplayPort (eDP) as Adaptive Sync, then Nvidia came up with G-Sync, AMD turned around and said something similar to "bollocks, didn't we have something like that ages ago," dusted off what it had given to VESA and called it FreeSync to poke fun at Nvidia's expensive G-Sync, then VESA went "hey, there's demand for this outside embedded panels" and added Adaptive Sync to the DisplayPort standard proper.

    Clear as mud, that.
     
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  8. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Yea, sorry, it's just i didn't want to confuse edzieba anymore than necessary as (s)he seems to be having enough difficulty just understand that G-Sync "compatible" is Nvidia's implementation and if it's not working properly then that's entirely down to Nvidia.

    On the topic of who came up with it first: Didn't AMD base FreeSync on eDP's panel self-refresh that had been around since 2011? If so it could be argued it wen't Vesa - AMD - Vesa, although seeing as AMD & Nvidia are members of VESA i guess it's all rather academic.
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2019
  9. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Nope: as per my timeline, AMD developed it then donated it to VESA which baked it into the eDP standard in 2009 (not 2011). It's an AMD technology through-and-through, even though it's now a VESA standard. (See also: AMD64, which Intel would very much like you to continue calling x86-64 or x64, please and thank you.)
     
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  10. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    TIL as IDK PSR was an AMD thing. :)
     
  11. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    Panel Self-Refresh came to VESA from Intel, not AMD (which is why IGP implemented it a few years prior to Mobility Radeon). PSR as we know it can pretty much be traced back to David Wyatt: at Intel for the initial eDP design, then after he moved to Nvidia as G-Sync.

    ::EDIT:: Lots of non-public-because-LOLVESA, but this ur-patent from Intel is from mid 2006. G-sync's history is more opaque, but some of the control logic started getting patented a scant few months after in late 2006.

    Some double-irony in that DP Adaptive Sync does not actually feature panel self-refresh (hence the high VRR floor, the panel controller is reliant on the GPU to generate frames, even repeat frames, can cannot self-refresh due to lacking a frame store) unlike G-Sync.

    ::EDIT2:: An interesting tidbit from Rtings:
    Which would explain most monitors not even getting a look-in for the 'certified' label.
    They also tested with direct comparison to performance on an AMD card (rather than assuming perfect output without testing). Of the 20 tested, 6 were listed with 'partial' (buggy) support, and of those the Samsung CF791 is bugged on both, The LG 32UL950-W & 32UD99 work identically under 'Extreme' settings but bug on 'Basic', and the LG 27UK650, 32UD59 & 27UD58 work under 'Basic' but not 'Extreme' settings. The remaining 14 tested were identical between GPUs.
     
    Last edited: 22 Jan 2019
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