Sounds like BS to me, but with a bit of 'background' bolted on to make it seem more reasonable. The sort of stuff you can find in two minutes on Wikipedia, really: It also makes a point that any such 'biophotons' (this is cells in your body spontaneously giving off 'light' in the IR, visible and ultraviolet spectra for some reasons) would be drowned out by even as faint a source as star light. So basically, you'd have to be in a totally dark room for the incredibly sensitive photometry equipment that would have to be in the machine to stand up to scrutiny. And hmm... blue LEDs are kind of near UV and definitely count as 'visible'... which might explain the bad results, especially if it was a blue illuminated "put finger here" area or something.
instead of just speculating, i decided to do a little googling. this is what i found. what looks the original product website with history: http://www.aoxlaser.com/scannerstory.html some info on the research at utah university: http://www.physics.utah.edu/research/medical.html (3rd paragraph from the end) edit: it says it is in development, but the page is 2 and a half years old so it still fits also: http://www.worldwidemarketingteams.com/pdf_files_02-10-04/cashcowarticle.pdf admittedly, I've only glanced at those documents but it seems the scanner is real, i still feel cynical about the company though and their intentions (like what the measurement/baseline proves), but there really is a scanner that can measure (very specific) antioxidant levels in your skin.
Yes, I've seen those documents (except the utah one) and I still remain sceptical. The baseline results just doesn't make any sense when considering our dietary and lifestyle habits. But it does make sense for a company to generate artificially low scores in order to promote sales of their supplementary nutritions. Also, added to this is the fact that this company has set it up as an MLM scam. And as with all MLM projects people have to be recruited into the "business" in order to promote yourself within said business. I am however willing to buy that it would be possible to scale down the instruments to the sizes I've seen demonstrated, however the blue LEDs (some of which were internal and flashing) and the seemingly superficial cooling fan... well. However, I still want to get my clammy hands on one and take it apart. I am curious. Hell, I'd love for this to be real and functional - who wouldn't? But it still seems too much like an elixir of life sold out of the boot of an old Ford Mondeo. I can say one thing though; until I am proven wrong, and this scheme is proven to work I will not take part in any kind of "life improving" scheme set forth by this company and its affiliates.
from what i can tell, it is possible to measure the quantities of certain antioxidants in the body with this scanner, what i'm skeptical about is the baseline that this device gives. The technology developed by the university of utah seems legitimate but it was then bought out and developed (with many iterations) by a pharmaceutical company. but tbh, even if it is real i wouldn't trust it, it only measures one of many many antioxidants and some antioxidants have been found to be more harmful than beneficiary. There is still a lot of research to be done into antioxidants and until there is more proof of the benefits, I'll remain skeptical of the befits shouted out by all these large companies desperate to hijack the most recent buzz words.
About the S2 Scanner … Journeyer, I know the feeling of wanting to rip something apart to see how it works. I doubt however you’ll ever be able to open one of these scanners. Luckily, I have had the opportunity while a physic research assitstant to rip apart the first generation S1 scanner as well as the current S2. Leaving Nu Skin as an MLM aside let’s talk about the scanner. The first generation scanner was developed by the University of Utah professor Werner Gellerman who was studying macular degeneration in the eye using laser based Raman spectroscopy. This technology was then further developed by Pharmanex to be used to measure carotenoids in the human skin. (Carotenoids are color giving molecules like beta-carotene [orange] and lycopene [red] which also act as antioxidants contributing to the role of vitamins C and E.) The basic method of the S1 was to shine blue laser light on the tissue of the palm and read a Raman signature on a spectrometer and using the peak height give a “score.” The S2 was developed because of the sensitive nature of lasers (i.e. temperature stability). Pharmanex asked two Brigham Young University Physics professors (S. Bergeson and J. Peatross) to work on a more rugged scanner. Using LEDs and photomultiplier tubes they were able to develop a scanner that could be operated at a higher ranger of temperatures (including base camp at Mount Everest) and was easier to calibrate. This was done by exciting a Raman signal at two alternating wavelengths (i.e. the blinking blue lights). Calculations are then done on the readings to calculate another “score” or indication of carotenoid concentration. I have listed a paper below that goes over the S2 scanner that was published in the Journal of Biomedical Optics. It is closest thing I can give you that show the authenticity of the technology. As to your diet and having a low baseline, neither the scanner nor the software is designed to “generate artificially low scores in order to promote sales of their supplementary nutrition.” Many people who have healthy diets will score in the lower scale (red and orange). Again, because the scanner only measures carotenoids you may or may not have a diet high in this class of anti-oxidants among other things such as genetic factors. What Pharmanex does guarantee is that if you take their supplement your scanner score will increase a certain amount regardless of the baseline (they do give refunds if it doesn’t). A more scientific way of testing the validity of the scanner is to go get your baseline on a scanner and then change your diet to an ultra high intake of carotenoid containing foods i.e. carrots, spinach, tomatoes, etc. Then, after six weeks of this diet, get scanned again. I hope this helps you with your understanding of the scanner technology. I also completely understand your skepticism. They had an opened scanner at Nu Skins 2007 Convention, I might be able to find you pictures of the inside of a scanner. “Resonance Raman measurements of carotenoids using light-emitting diodes.” Journal of Biomedical Optics 13(04), 044026 Date: 1 July 2008 Paper Abstract We report on the development of a compact commercial instrument for measuring carotenoids in skin tissue. The instrument uses two light-emitting diodes (LEDs) for dual-wavelength excitation and four photomultiplier tubes for multichannel detection. Bandpass filters are used to select the excitation detection wavelengths. The f/1.3 optical system has high optical throughput and single photon sensitivity, both of which are crucial in LED-based Raman measurements. We employ a signal processing technique that compensates for detector drift and error. The sensitivity and reproducibility of the LED Raman instrument compares favorably to laser-based Raman spectrometers. This compact, portable instrument is used for noninvasive measurement of carotenoid molecules in human skin with repeatability better than 10%. DOI: 10.1117/12.810191
Yep, the ********-o-meter has just gone off the chart tbh. Single-photon sensitivity? With an optical wavelength? In daylight? Pfft. All these people are doing is trying to baffle with a few long and slightly technical words. Boil it down to the meat and veg, and it's nothing more than a load of crap.
Not entirely --the best lie (and advertising) is based in truth. Carotenoids from a normal, unsupplemented diet accumulate in the skin and confer a measurable photoprotective benefit (at least in lightly pigmented Caucasian skin), that is directly linked to their concentration in the tissue (ref). Another study, in the Journal of Nutrition, found that tomato paste, which is high in the carotenoid lycopene, also seems to offer some protection from sunlight's damage. After ten weeks, people who ate the equivalent of half a small can of tomato paste each day reduced their usual reddening from ultraviolet light by 35 percent (also replicated here). A study in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition showed that skin wrinkling on sun-exposed body parts in elderly people was lowest among those who ate the most vegetables, beans and olive oil. Prunes, apples and tea (also high in antioxidant phytochemicals) were also related to reduced wrinkling. Carotenoid concentration in the skin correlate with the presence or absence of skin cancer and precancerous lesions (ref). However these relationships are not straightforward nor universally reported in all studies. Measuring dermal carotenoid levels through spectroscopy is not new either (ref and ref). Calibration is an issue however, and darker skin appears harder to scan. The relevant questions are: Does spectroscopy give a reliable measure of carotenoid levels in the skin? Does this say anything useful about the skin's health: e.g. resistance to UV radiation and its ageing effects? But more importantly: Does the Pharmanex scanner give a reliable and meaningful measure? Does Pharmanex offer an effective remedy? just because we can say "yes" to the first two questions does not automatically mean we can say "yes" to the latter two. Don't get blinded by science --even if it works. It is a big leap from the research lab to the beauty products counter at your local department store.
It's NOT a scam I dont take any of the Pharmanex Supplements BUT the past two years I am: - on a semi-vegetarian diet, - no coffee, - take Centrum, fish oil, flax seed, probiotic OTCs daily, - never smoked, - alcohol only with red or white wine and - exercise 3x a week My score was 49,000, just a nudge below the top 50,000+ max. If my score was in the 20,000s or 30,000s then you can claim that the machine is a scam built to entice people to buy the supplements. I am proof that you dont need the Pharmanex supplements to get a high score. However using the Pharmanex supplements will take you the 50,000 score faster and probably no change to a semi-vegetarian or vegetarian diet. Some people might say, oh it's based on one's age and weight. I am 5'8" and at 168 lbs that is near the max for my height. Before I took my reading, a hot skinny gal in her 20s took the test. She scored 26,000. So it is not just about weight but basically what is inside your body. The only ones who say that this is a scam are the ones who are in denial from admitting that they are eating crap (trans fats, sugars, burgers, sodas, etc) and doesn't exercise regularly. You are what you eat.
IF (and I'm in no way convinced without some genuine, independent, well-known academic institution publishing a decent paper on it), if it does work, you still have the problem of proving that antioxidants in massive abundance are actually beneficial to people. While a decent level of antioxidants are required for a healthy body, it's a bit like Vitamins, oils and allsorts of other supplements, minerals and nutrients - they are a fine and intricate balance. Just because a decent level of Vitamin C will prevent scurvy that doesn't mean that eating 1000x more Vitamin C will be beneficial to your health. (I realise the person above is most likely a spammer, but I wanted to get my 0.02$ in there too.)
Surely if Blue light was blocked - everyone would be blue? Same concept with green leaf plants - the only part of the visible spectrum they don't absorb is green...
What he's talking about is the absorption and reflection of different colours. Blue is highly attenuated in flesh, making it bad for probing inside a body. Red light is only lightly absorbed, which makes it much easier to get a reflection and therefore a reading from below the skin's surface.
But does it produce ions that are small enough to inhale? I wouldn't buy it if it didn't, there are machines out there that can and you don't want to get ripped off by buying such outdated technology... Something like this would be much better value, see it was even featured in the daily mail!
Hm, oh yes. I had forgotten about this thread. We did not buy into this obvious scam by the way, but it's interesting to note that out of all the posts in this thread, only two posts - from two one-post users - have spoken well of these products as well as the companies involved. *snf snf* yes, I smell snake oil. I never could find a unit to take apart, but I might start looking again. And to the single-post guy who said I probably wouldn't be able to take one apart I only have one thing to say: Trust me! If I want to take something apart, it's coming apart. But it could be interesting to get another scan these days just to compare our previous results from last year. As the missus got pregnant we have both become even more conscious about our dietary habits, but I'm sure we'd both get low results yet again.
You lost me at this nugget of genius. "Yeah, I'm like a vegetarian 'cos I only eat fish. And ducks, they're sorta like fish, right? I mean they live on water... Oh and the occasional cow. Because they drink water..."
Today I had the pleasure to finally see one and have myself measured. I'm an RKC Instructor doing quite a bit excercises, take multivitamins, Omega3 etc., taking care for my diet, quit smoking one year ago so I thought my score should be OK. Naaah, it was in the red! OK, orange, 28k. My host said well, my cheap Scitec multi is not much worth. I guess only Nu Skin multi makes my score go up. You noticed that WHILE the machine measures you the assistant fills up the fields giving basic info about you... Age, skin type... Smells like teen snake oil. Would be more credible if it were not that big business with OPPORTUNITY, PASSIVE INCOME and blue diamond level.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh man that was an excellent story, the plot is off, and the characters **** but damn riveting read, blood relative. Also your science is **** as photo-spectrometers require a sealed darkroom to function. while you are conning retarded people out of money with your flashing leds, you might want to start up a cult I know this because i am a design engineer for a prestigious marine lighting company and have to fight retardation like yours at every step. your gimmicky measurements require hours of calibration to cope with the variables of humidity, skin type, skin colour and not to mention. Temperature, where half a degree can skew your results with a photo-spectrometer (or any sensitive optical equipment i have used for testing competitor products) by about 1-2%
Also WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS Is no credible scientific retort, with no independent research proving, nor disproving your work, so we are inclined to call ******** on your cult like pyramid scheme.
And ChemistryGuru and BiologyGuru. By their powers combined they are: Science! I'm not even going to pretend to know much about antioxidants and various forms of light used to measure it, but I will throw in my general confusion as to why the hell sherpas have anything to do with it. If this is entirely dietary, what's the point in measuring them? Furthermore, what's the point of measuring them at an altitude? Sorry but when dietary supplements, antioxidants and anything Tibetan/Nepalese come together as one I get very, very suspicious. Especially about the Nepalese. Living in a dirt poor village on the side of a mountain does not mean you have a heathly and eco-friendly lifestyle, it means you are a poor Nepalese farmer who is probably less healthy than your average first world citizen due to malnutrition. Young impressionable [probably Californian hipster] people seem to think otherwise.
