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News Raspberry Pi 2 launches with quad-core ARMv7 chip

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 2 Feb 2015.

  1. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag What's a Dremel?

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    I know the feeling - I had a Due that burned up from a 12V source too. The "native" USB port still works but the programming port is fried. Not sure why the programming port died and nothing else, but that's how it went.

    I think the problem is amps, not volts. I had an ARM board that operated at 5v and when I used a computer PSU the power regulator burned up even though it was a constant 5v source. I soldered something to override the power regulator and the device started working fine after that. Anyway, most arduinos only need a few hundred milliamps to operate.
     
  2. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    I care, thank you! :)

    Precisely. USB3, SATA, Gb ethernet, none of these things are really compatible with low cost and low power.
     
  3. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    You're more than welcome.
    I dunno... The Banana Pi is £34.95 from a UK stockist (or cheaper if ordered from China and VAT dodged) and boasts a dual-core processor of equal single-threaded performance to the new Raspberry Pi 2, same RAM, gigabit Ethernet and SATA 2.0 - and that's a mere £5 premium over the new Raspberry Pi 2.
     
  4. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    £5 might not be a lot if you're only buying one, but if you're buying a few [the rPi was aimed at schools after all], an extra £5 per device adds up...

    Plus if you wanted those features, chances are you've already bought the Banana Pi...
     
  5. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    No, the Raspberry Pi was aimed at hackers and tinkerers. It found success in schools, but that was far from the original launch target.

    Yes, an extra £5 per device adds up if you're buying in bulk - but schools don't need SATA or gigabit Ethernet. I was responding to calls from individuals that it would be nice to have those features, and pointing out that those features are available for a smaller premium than was being tacitly suggested.

    (Incidentally, the Raspberry Pi isn't the cheapest educationally-focused single-board computer around; it's just the one with the best PR.)
     
  6. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    I honestly thought it was the other way round - aimed at schools and caught on with tinkerers. Rather than aimed at tinkerers and caught on with schools.
     
  7. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    I'd suspect there's very little profit in the Banana Pi, potentially even a loss leader. There's probably very little profit in the Pi too (4.5 million sold certainly helps with that), but the Banana Pi is (likely) designed and (very likely) made in China, so it's easy to achieve savings there. They're probably buying the parts down the road in a Shenzen market and carrying them up to the factory on foot! :)

    Knowing that the majority of the production of Raspberry Pi boards is done just down the road in Pencoed gives me warm and fuzzies, even if the individual components are all imported from China.

    I thought the original goal was to get a disposably cheap computer into the hands of kids who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it? I remember reading comments from Eben at one point that said they didn't initially anticipate the interest from the hacker/maker market, but it is a fair point to say that that market drove (and still drives) a hell of a lot of sales.
     
  8. Xlog

    Xlog Minimodder

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    Imo, that point became moot then they announced compute module. Also, without geek interest there wouldn't be such an active software development and rpi would have died a long time ago

    Then comparing rpi2 to odroid-c1 (wich costs £3 more, but has a faster cpu/gpu/ram, proper gig Ethernet, rtc, 2x usb), rpi2 looses in everything but camera and analog video output. Hell, odroid supports more codecs and doesn't need you to buy licences for any of them.
     
  9. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag What's a Dremel?

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    I was about to say the same thing. I thought the original RPi board was really just a bunch of ATMega chips crammed together (but then that project was abandoned after they realized Broadcom's chip was better, cheaper, smaller, and more power efficient).
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    The Raspberry Pi as a project was founded with that goal in mind, but as a design? The first batch of 15,000 Pis (which was originally going to be a batch of 5,000) was launched specifically for hackers to play with, which is why they went live on Farnell and RS rather than an education-specific supplier. The idea had been to sell off the first 15,000 and revise the design based on feedback from the hackers before hopefully coming up with something a little better-suited to education. Selling out in the first five minutes changed that plan, and production of the original design began in earnest.

    If the Pi's design had really been built with education in mind, they did a terrible job. The GPIO is fragile and easy to break (just short out of a couple of pins and poof, no more Pi) and the operating system is no different to what you could run on the desktop PCs the schools already have - except slower. Talk about the £5 differences adding up in bulk - instead of buying 60 £30 Raspberry Pis (then 60 power supplies, micro-SD cards, and cases if you don't want 'em to get broken) you could just install Debian as a dual-boot on the school's existing PCs for free and run all the same software. Want to interface with hardware? An Arduino is far more capable, and far cheaper, than the Raspberry Pi - and you don't need a power supply for that.

    (I used to work as a network manager in a school, and I did exactly that years before the Pi was launched. Worked a treat.)
     
  11. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    [​IMG]

    :thumb:

    I know the idea of the initial production run was to get it out there in the hands of people who could write the software, but I didn't know that they had initially planned to revise the hardware design. It did strike me as odd that something so sensitive as the GPIO pins would be left exposed like that.

    I do sometimes wish I hadn't been such an early adopter; my Pi is one of the very early ones (probably not one of the first 10k, but very close to it) and has the power supply niggles that plagued early models. Though I never had enough of a use for it to consider replacing it when the various revisions were released...
     
  12. Chicken76

    Chicken76 Minimodder

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    The biggest gripe I had with the Pi was the ethernet performance. It topped around 40-ish mbits.
    I see the Pi 2 uses the same USB-hub-ethernet the Pi B+ had, the SMSC LAN9514
    This probably means ethernet performance is identical, doesn't it?
     
  13. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    I've tested this, and I've got good news for you: while Ethernet performance when the Pi was first released was absysmal¹, software updates since launch have greatly improved matters. I ran a raw throughput benchmark² on both the Model B+ (overclocked and non-overclocked) and the Raspberry Pi 2, and all three tests resulted in 89Mb/s throughput - which is pretty fairly the most you're going to ever get through a 100Mb/s connection, thanks to overheads. Now, that's best-case: if you're writing data to a USB storage device, you can expect throughput to drop as there's (still!) only one USB channel from the SoC to everything - so your USB storage device and Ethernet port are all sharing the one channel.

    ¹ Actually, USB performance in general was abysmal. It's a lot better now, but even on the Raspberry Pi 2 don't be fooled into thinking those are USB ports. They might look like USB ports, they might even act like USB ports, but they're not. You're limited to 1.2A maximum power draw across all four ports, for a start - which is significantly below the 500mA per port (2A combined) required of the USB specification.

    ² Throwing a 100MB chunk of /dev/random through netcat to /dev/null. This gives you an absolute best-case result for network throughput, as there's none of the traffic or CPU overhead you'd get using protocols like FTP, SCP, CIFS or what have you. You're also avoiding slowdown from writing the data anywhere; as soon as it hits the Pi, it's discarded.
     
  14. Chicken76

    Chicken76 Minimodder

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    That sounds quite good.
    I wonder what the actual real-world performance is when transferring a big file through CIFS to a ramdrive. Having 1 GB of ram now, it would be possible to create a sizable ramdrive, say 500 MB, share it through Samba and write to it from another host. A 400 MB file would be big enough to achieve a meaningful figure for sustained traffic.
     
  15. GuilleAcoustic

    GuilleAcoustic Ook ? Ook !

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    Tempted to buy one, put it inside a keyboard and throw Risc OS at it. Closest thing to an Amiga.
     
  16. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    I did some updated power draw benchmarks this morning, using every Raspberry Pi release (bar the Compute Module) since the original Model B. The figures are different this time, as I used a different method which had no peripherals at all connected - nothing but the power and SD card. Interesting to see how much the Pi improved with each revision - and how the new quad-core version is barely any more power-hungry than the original release (which, granted, had an error in its layout which made the LAN/USB chip act as a 3.3V regulator and suck down power like a very hungry thing.)

    EDIT: Oh, one other thing to note: the 'load' figures are for CPU load, not GPU load. Running a heavy GPU workload will see the power draw increase above what I've recorded here, but that's more awkward to automate on a headless setup.

    Updated Power Benchmarks.
     
    Last edited: 3 Feb 2015
  17. runadumb

    runadumb What's a Dremel?

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    Be careful of newit. They sell fake sdcards.

    EDIT:It was my mistake, this is not true.
     
    Last edited: 15 Feb 2015
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    It would have been great if Microsoft just opened the desktop. When it was jailbroken I had software like Audacity and Paint.Net running on it, with Rainmeter adorning the desktop. It was perfect: an Office capable hybrid tablet laptop with really good battery life. Then Windows 8.1 update came along and Microsoft broke the jailbreak, thus significantly gimping its functionality again. Because that's what Microsoft does: create decent products, and then gimp them for some cynical commercial boardroom decision which inevitably backfires on them. Every. ****ing. Time.
     
  19. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Or 'here's this awesome thing... what do you mean you want to buy one?... lol we're not going to sell it to you...'

    *cough*Zune*cough*
     
  20. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Yeah. Zune = iPod killer. Let's create this awesome .MP3 player with a beautiful interface, and one of the best accompanying desktop applications, but then not sell it outside the US. And then when it becomes a success despite our best efforts, let's can it, and lay off the talent pool just before we try again with X-Box Music.
     

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