Playstation 3 Sony unfair to use Blu-Ray technology in PS3?

Do you feel Sony have the unfair advantage in the next-gen dvd battle by the inclusion of blu-ray technology in the PS3?

Do you feel this degrades the competition of HD-DVD? Do you feel that Sony are unfair by announcing this technology in the PS3 before the next popular follow-up to DVD has been announced?

How do you feel about their tactics of winning over the new format wars?

 

It really doesnt matter if blu-ray wins the format war or not, even though it will and alot of people have accepted that its a far better medium to use for the next generation. They do however have an advantage over the 360 if blu-ray wins the format war, because microsoft will not be able to add HD-dvd to there console in any reasonable price and will be stuck with a single dvd drive. But its there own fault i guess. Even if blu-ray does fail at the movie market, it always has the console market to fall back on, and personally i think it looks like a far better technology for games than HD-DVD, mainly because of its size and transfer rates.

 

Good argument, but how about the influence over the war between HD-DVD for movies?

The film studios in my view will take into account the global success of the Playstation brand and the inevitable popularity of Playstation 3 which will work towards Sony's favouring of Blu-Ray. Where does this leave HD-DVD in the race?

 

It's not unfair - it's Sony's product, they can do whatever the hell they want with it. Who said anything is fair in love and war? As far as businesses are concerned i think it's MS who are idiots for NOT putting in a HDDVD drive into their boxes.

 

I can understand where you're coming from, but was there really a need for another alternative format (HD-DVD) if there was a monopoloy leaning towards Sony?

 

Of course there was. If there was only Blu-ray, Sony'd be the only ones making money. God forbid.

 

Sony have balls'd this sort of thing up before remember with Betamax. Don't take anything for granted based on it simply being superior technology.

 

I think blu-ray is more famous with consumers that HD-DVD. So I can see blue-ray becoming more of a sucess, and being cheaper earlier due to reduced production costs as a result of the PS3. So I can see blue-ray becoming the standard format.

Not unfair I don't think, we've got to start distributing blu-ray somewhere.

 

Nope HDDVD will become more of a sucess because the disks are being made in China for uber-cheap. Consumers will choose with their wallets: that's how VHS one, not because it was a superior technology.
Also, im betting more people know XML than whatever blu-ray uses.

 

To be fair though, the main reason behind the triumph of JVC's VHS format was how it licenced out it's technology and the format's larger capacity over Sony's Betamax.

This time around, neither are propiertory formats. Both are developed by groups and could have equal chances of success if it weren't for key factors in the Blu-Ray camp like: PS3 standard, ridiculously higher capacity as standard, exclusive studio backing (Sony-owned studios, obviously), more major manufacturers to develop hardware initially (not just Sony and Phillips).

The only thing HD-DVD has going for it is the price. It's not like it would be impossible to see a Blu-Ray drive on a X360 either. Why not?

Should be interesting to see unfold.

 

I'm just an interested observer, and I'm yet to buy into all the hype surrounding Blu-Ray until there's actually a product worth buying that uses it. I just can't see the general public buying into a really expensive replacement for DVD in the immediate future - and as far as HD having a price advantage (as well as a much earlier launch), well I think that could be the only way the public WOULD start trading in their existing DVD players. Remember how long it took for regular DVD players to filter into the average household? The point regular, non-gadget obsessed people starting buying em up was when they dropped below the £250-300 mark. Even the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player looks like a luxury item (certainly at launch prices) based on the expected £350+ pricetag.

Sure the PS3 promises to use the tech for all sorts of wonderful things, but how are developers gonna fill up such an atronomical amount of space without pouring in loads of FMV and filler?

I dunno. It's gonna be interesting to see how this pans out, but it all seems to be a rather luxurious new tech that could well go the way of laserdisc, minidisc and super audio CDs.

P.S Before anyone butt***** me for seeming anti-Sony (two PS1's, a PS2, an old Sony hi-fi, Minidisc player, phone, PSP, TV) I'm not. I'm just very cynical and have an extreme allergic reaction to marketing hype

 

Good points, but quite a few studios (obviously not Sony backed) are opting for both HD and Blu-ray, but if two types of movies come out, and one on HD costs less than the Blu-ray which are consumers gonna opt for? Especially if HD players come down in price quicker than Blu-ray (??), although Blu-ray drives are already hitting the market. I know that Blu-ray has more capacity which would be good for special edition stuff and people like Disney have said that their interactive format is harder to code but offers more options to the consumer.
Thing is, will people buy it? Do enough people buy special edition disks for the extra money and content? Will HDDVD be sufficiently cheaper? What will the players cost??

HD stuff wont be standard for a long long time yet. For starters it has to offer something appreciable over DVD, like DVD did over VHS which was better quality and able to skip to any point in the film almost instantly, using the same TV. HDDVD/BRDVD doesnt have that kind of functionality gain. Also, people are gonna have to upgrade their TVs to HD sets in order to appreciate the upgrade otherwise you might as well buy a normal DVD disk. People arent gonna upgrade their sets until digital HDTV becomes the "norm", then SDDVDs will look like crap on HDTVs and they will need to buy better disks.

 

i dont think any of the formats will take over DVD, think what equipment people will need to play a blu-ray/HD-DVD disc, new HD dvd player plus a new HD tv, both of which are pricey - very. I thnk they could both be a small success but only for console's/pc's because its just not practical for everyone to buy new eqiupment, and people wont.

 

Actually from my understanding, there are far more companies backing blu-ray and considering that alot of movies get 2 or more re-released special edition dvd's i think there is a big enough market for special edition dvd's. With the release of the ps3 and the fact that a HDtv can be had for under 500$ american,theres a pretty good market for a better quality video as well (I've watched some dvd's on my dads 2grand HDtv and the quality is far from perfect). I think as long as the ps3's internal blu-ray drive plays dvd's as well, (And it should, its completly backwards compatable with ps2) there will be a HUGE market for blu-ray movies.

 

And in any case, the increase in picture quality from VHS to DVD isn't NEARLY as obvious as the one from standard to high defininiton. But as you said earlier, it's whatever's cheaper and will piss people off less will win. I'm down on whichever bans UPOs and previews. I'd imagine anyone who's played a Superbit DVD would agree with me in saying that's what DVDs always should have been: DTS and DD5.1 audio tracks, the entire remainder of the space is dedicated to video. Which means the naturally lossy format used for recording to a DVD won't hurt the image quality as much.

What I see as being the main problem is that most people have no interest in copying movies, legally or questionably. Which means the antipiracy measures which end up annoying EVERYONE (anyone, at least stateside, notice that mpaa-sponsored clip? any pirates notice that's NOT included in the pirated version, as is any other undesired crap?). I mean... poor box office results are always blamed on piracy now, but I can rent any movies for free, and I never rent new releases. Because the movies sucked. Not because I could waste bandwidth and possibly get myself a nice lawsuit by pirating it. Even if I didn't work at a video store, I'd rather pay the four bucks and back that up rather than download it, for the sole reason that picture and audio quality is somewhat higher and I have a nice setup.

To the original question - no, Sony is perfectly entitled to use it, and was smart to do so. It goes beyond marketing and is downright common sense. All that BS about the system not being used to it's full potential and we're not even filling DVDs for games right now... so? I was astounded when D2 broke the 1GB barrier for install size. I haven't even flinched at FEAR, Far Cry, SCCT, or most notably UT2004, all of which were over 3.5GB. Then consider the fact that unlike the PC, console games need to have the entire game engine on EVERY disk, so tacking on a second disk really doesn't give developers much room for more content. It's only a rather short matter of time before developers put far more than a DVDs worth of data on a BRD for PS3 games, whereas Microsoft has cramped developers into a DVD again, or screwed over consumers who don't have Rev2 360 without the HDDVD drive.

Considering how cheap DVD players are now, you can't really think people will use new consoles as movie players long-term, no matter what Sony and MS say to the contrary about centralizing things. Especially because for every one with an xbox/ps2, you've probably got a dozen more that don't but still have a DVD player. And the occasional oddball that still only has a VCR. So in the end, it's whatever offers [cheaper/higher quality/less irritating feature-ridden] films that will win out. Probably cheaper, but BRD gives the extra space for higher audio/video quality, though it sounds like the HDDVD won't irritate consumers quite as much.

Going back to what I said earlier: I'd imagine anyone who's played a Superbit DVD would agree with me in saying that's what DVDs always should have been: DTS and DD5.1 audio tracks, the entire remainder of the space is dedicated to video. That's what 99% of people want. Give us THAT on next-gen products. For God's sake, don't put in previews (and if you must, at least put a huge warning on the front cover so I know not to buy it), and don't expect sales if you prevent skipping over them.

hmm... that went on a ways. I think the short version is whatever consumers like more, for three main reasons (price/quality/features) will win.

 

1. Cheaper discs - Mostly a myth. The cost differences will be insignifigant
2. Studios - 1: HD only; 2 or 3: both; 2 or 3: blu-ray only (Can't remember which right now, but it would only take 10 minutes of research to find out if you want.)
3. Um - I started typing this a while ago and I can't remember what #3 was... Uh - blu-ray is teh r0x3r... blu-ray 4 teh win!!!!!1!!1!!!!!1111eleven11!!!!1

 

Your forgetting that the ps2 was one of the things that pushed the dvd into the future, you may not of used it now, but when the ps2 was out and dvd players were like 200-500 dollars each, the ps2 was a VALUABLE object that not only played games but new high quality dvd movies. This means that people will probably use there ps3 to play blu-ray movies LONG before they buy a stand alone blu-ray player. But i do agree on you that i am entirely sick of dvd previews, especially the ones that dont let you SKIP them.


I did remember hearing something about blu-ray disks will have a protective coating on them, to be more scratch resistant, can anyone tell me if this is true?

 

It is true. This coating was developed by TDK and COULD be used on any optical disk... But, TDK is a member of the BLU-RAY group and Sony said*:

"Hey, TDK - we're fighting this fight over next-gen DVD and I bet we'd be more likely to win if you decided to license your new scratchproof coating exclusively to the Blu-ray group - if you do, we'll make it part of the spec so that everyone has to use it and pay you a royalty. If blu-ray loses the fight, you can change your mind and license it to anyone who wants to pay for it. What do you think?"

Then TDK said**:

"That's a pretty good idea - We're already a member of the blu-ray group and this will be a big win. I think I'll do that....."

-------------------------------
Notes -
* - Sony didn't really say that.
** - TDK didn't really say that.

 

You're right - they said "You can license it and get royalties anyways, but since we had the idea of you doing that, we get 30% of them. By hearing this statement, you agree to it's contents."


Good point DivineSin, though I watched my first DVDs on a PC. I did use our PS2 for a while, but in honestly preferred the PC method (till that damned compaq became too fubar to do anything, let alone watch a movie), though that was mostly down to, in the words of Bart Simpson, geographical convenience (sofabed in the same room).

I only got my own DVD player literally last week, and only because I'm sick of software just plain not working right EVER (thankfully my LCD has an S-video in, so though it's not quite a pretty as DVI or even component, it takes pisspoor software out of the equation of watching a movie). Honestly, the whole concept of being forced into paying for the software which contains a DVD decoder is flat-out BS, especially seeing that every DVD player software I've tried is identical in structure and sucess rate. I mean WinDVD (tested 5, 6, and 7) and PowerDVD flat-out refuse to play movies entirely, and this is after a fresh install. What the hell is up with MCE05 not INCLUDING the freakin' decoder, it's not as if you're not paying too much for the OS to begin with (well, dunno, maybe legit versions include it, but seeing as my experiences with pirated softare always give me more than the retail disc, I doubt it).

I guess that's something else on my "list" with how the next-gen stuff better be. In a PC, a basic DVD playing software is included at no charge. And it had better WORK. Much like (in the beginning anyways) Windows' built-in CD-writing support.

I won't even start on what games have been doing to me recently, it's too OT, seeing as this is about the PS3 and BRD and I'm already pretty far off from it. Main point HERE is that it should be LESS of a headache for consumers...

 

Thought i'd resuscitate this thread by adding a relevant link from The Register stating:

Warner Home Video boss blasts Sony
Blu-ray vs HD DVD = PS3 vs Xbox 360
By Tony Smith
Published Thursday 8th December 2005 11:31 GMT

The battle between the next-generation games consoles will determine the winner of the fight between the next-generation optical disc formats.

So claimed the president of Warner Home Video, Warren Lieberfarb, this week, as he slammed Sony's strategy to help Blu-ray Disc (BD) to beat HD DVD. Ironically, Warner itself is playing it safe by backing both BD and HD DVD.

Lieberfarb's concern is that Sony is turning the optical disc battle into the console fight, and vice versa. And with Microsoft tossing its hat in the ring on the side of HD DVD, he's probably right. Certainly, Sony's decision to equip the PS3 with a BD drive will have helped many a content company come down on the side of BD.

"If I put Blu-Ray in PlayStation and I don't license it to Microsoft for Xbox and I get all the studios to only publish in PlayStation, I'll beat Microsoft in the next-generation games market," said Lieberfarb, speaking at the European Video Perspectives conference in Biarritz, France.

"Hollywood blew it. They got duped," Lieberfarb claimed. "They could have created the format that optimised their creative interests. It looks like we lost, because there are six studios supporting Blu-Ray and only three supporting HD-DVD.

"We've been sucked into PlayStation versus Xbox," he said.

And there's no doubt on which side of the fence Lieberfarb sits - he called on the video industry to back HD DVD and, by his own argument, Microsoft and Xbox.

"Convergence is here, everything is digital, the Internet is going to deliver video, you are going to want to pass information from one device to another, and HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray is really the first battle in the issue of who controls the home," he said.

Indeed. Sony or Microsoft - take your pick... ®