1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Superrich and us

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Archtronics, 15 Jan 2015.

  1. Archtronics

    Archtronics Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    27 Jun 2006
    Posts:
    2,559
    Likes Received:
    64
    Anybody been watching this on the bbc?

    While it's been intresting I can't help but think there's some political motives behind the whole program.

    Do you think the superrich benefit or hinder the majority and does it have any personnal effect on you?
     
  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    34,272
    Likes Received:
    1,697
    "The rich, they're not like you and me" --Philip Marlowe

    "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" --Matthew 19:24
     
  3. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

    Joined:
    4 Jan 2012
    Posts:
    511
    Likes Received:
    3
    Firstly - I'm in the poor category, always was, always will be. But I'm not delusional to think 'they' are holding me back. I hold me back.

    Secondly - the 'rich' fall into two categories (generally, and for simplicity)

    1. Self made. Entrepreneurs. See an opportunity, grab it, focus.
    2. Family money. My family tree does not contain any entrepreneurs, if it did there might be more money in the history of my family. Therefore we do not have yachts, houses in London, Ferraris, etc. Now look at the family history of the rich, some of the family money comes from a few hundred years ago.

    In general Archtronics, I think they mostly benefit the world. They are the ones who have access to the capital to start up new big businesses and employ people.

    Most of the rich earnt their money through being shrewd and hard work, and having a mentality to save and invest. It's not worth debating the ones who earnt their money through dodgy deals because we all agree they hinder the world.
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    34,272
    Likes Received:
    1,697
    A Chinese proverb says that wealth lasts three generations. The first generation through hard work makes it, the second through their parents' example consolidates it, the third takes it for granted and squanders it.

    Alternatively, the third takes it for granted and feels entitled to it. Money creates its own gravity that attracts more money, so this entitlement seems reinforced. Perspective is lost.

    When you look at the division of wealth across the world, the world's 85 richest people own as much as the world's poorest 3.5 billion people. In the UK the richest 1% owns as much as the poorest 55%. Now, I don't begrudge anyone some wealth and comfort, but just how much money do you need to own for a decent quality of life? How many millions do you need to own before the next million stops making a difference to your quality of life?

    The richest people are too rich. There is no conceivable reason why they need to be that rich. There is no way someone can be that rich without someone being deprived at the other end, and that is the dirty little secret that nobody wants to admit to. The richer you get, the more someone else is likely to be deprived or exploited at the other end.

    Interestingly a survey in the US revealed that both Republican and Democrat voters have pretty much the same ideas on this, and favour a very similar division of wealth in society: one that reflects reward for hard work and effort, but not insane unjustifiable wealth.
     
  5. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    6,387
    Likes Received:
    746
    I don't think it is so much political motives but rather the good old "look how weird and different they are" theme that turns up in pretty much every format that focuses on a specific set of people.

    In other words, no different than "look what lazy slobs they are" on every benefits related program like for example benefits street or "look what stupid thing they are willing to do for five seconds of fame" on every z-list celebrity program like Big Brother.
     
  6. LennyRhys

    LennyRhys Oink!

    Joined:
    16 May 2011
    Posts:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    489
    There's a really, really good article on this here. I have the utmost respect for Nick Hanauer because he is actually thinking of balance rather than his own wealth. When I hear rich people complain about taxation, I really just want to slap them. Hard.

    And Nexxo you are right on the money (pardon the pun) but I'd say that there's no ceiling when it comes to riches as a manifestation of selfishness, which is what we're dealing with at the end of the day - we all suffer from it, and some of us have the resources (and indeed the drive) to turn that same selfishness into vast quantities of money.

    The super-rich benefit from, well, being alive, because they've gotten to the point where they can make money even when they do nothing, such is the nature of clever and considered investment.
     
  7. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,199
    Likes Received:
    155
    I'm not sure how amassing huge wealth benefits anyone. Even the people who have it. I vaguely recall one of the dragons from dragons den saying something to the effect of using money as a measure of success or performance (and a metric in a mickey measuring contest with others). It seemed it wasn't about the value of money it was more like points in a video game.
     
  8. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    665
    Obligatory TED talk:

     
  9. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    386
    Just curious, what make you believe it's clever and considered investment ?
     
  10. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,199
    Likes Received:
    155
    I doubt anyone becomes super rich by making stupid and reckless investment.

    Well apart from lotto winners
     
  11. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    386
    So the recent world-wide financial crash was clever and considered investment ?

    IIRC the institutions and people responsible for the subprime mortgage crisis made a lot of stupid and reckless investment, but most of the key players have awarded record bonuses.
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    34,272
    Likes Received:
    1,697
    How about immoral and exploitative investments?
     
  13. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    386
    For those that can't get access to the BBC it's also on YouTube.

     
  14. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,199
    Likes Received:
    155
    Arguably yes, if you advanced your own wealth.

    Clever and considered are not mutually exclusive to the above.

    I'm not advocating rich peoples anything btw.
     
  15. LennyRhys

    LennyRhys Oink!

    Joined:
    16 May 2011
    Posts:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    489
    Ever read the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"? It's all in there - the secret to being rich and growing in riches is to make money work for you rather than the other way round, and only careful investment will get you there.

    There are people who are not careful with investments who may get lucky a few times, but eventually they'll run out of money - that's the nature of investing. Look at all the sob stories of people who win millions (yes, plural) in the lottery, and sometimes within a year they're back to square one, or filing for bankruptcy. Had they chosen to carefully invest even just a fraction of their winnings, they'd likely have doubled or tripled their net worth within that same time period.

    I think the fundamental misunderstanding here is that the super rich are people with a lot of money. I don't believe that that is the case... it's not that they have money; their very existence generates money for them. It's ridiculous.

    Edit: case in point - the dude I mentioned earlier earns £12,000 per hour, and he doesn't "work" like the ordinary person. I suspect he plays a lot of golf.
     
  16. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    34,272
    Likes Received:
    1,697
    Well, at least he is doing penance in some way. :p
     
  17. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

    Joined:
    13 Nov 2004
    Posts:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    112
    So just out of curiosity, what is the cut off points in terms of annual income? What is wealthy, rich, and super rich?
     
  18. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    386
    I don't see that as clever and considered investment, i see that as having to be given money because you're such a big cog in the machine that your failure effects everyone.

    If that's the nature of investing then why when these people run out of money did we give them more ?
    The simple fact is the banks were too big to fail, we had to make a choice, let them fail and take all our money with them, or prop them up by giving them money.

    We choose the lesser of two evils.

    EP2 is also on YouTube.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jan 2015
  19. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

    Joined:
    18 Apr 1982
    Posts:
    12,453
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    Mulligans aplenty I'd imagine.
     
  20. LennyRhys

    LennyRhys Oink!

    Joined:
    16 May 2011
    Posts:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    489
    It's the nature of investing that if you don't invest wisely, you will eventually run out of money. The people who learn from their mistakes don't run out of money, or at least if they do, they get it back through sheer grit and determination, and sagacity. Simon Cowell was bankrupt and is now worth hundreds of millions, because he knows how to invest.

    There was another program on the BBC (I think) which was about people who pursue a career in online trading, working from home on a household computer. This was a really interesting program because it showed (again) the nature of investing, and more so the way that it affects people: one guy was stinking rich and growing in wealth because he was making thousands per day on just two or three transactions; another guy was making less than that in a year, yet he was convinced he'd eventually hit the big time and get rich.

    Some people are unwilling to accept that they just don't have what it takes to be a successful investor, however there are grey areas: some people have so much money that they can afford to invest a lot and make a very small profit, perhaps 2%, which if you have a lot of money is a lot of money (eg give me 2% of £3 million and that's a tidy salary). The real super rich are people for whom breaking even is not even in their vocabulary.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jan 2015

Share This Page