Motors The Official bit-tech F1 2013 Thread

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The camera sees all...

 

aaaaahahahahahahaha.

 

Really?? They're not exactly Ferrari.

While Sazuka is a better track, the second half of Korea was a better race.

 

They're not, but having sold more than 3000 of them in less than 3 years (and 300+ P1's at £1m+Tax), they've got enough money coming in through that avenue (and their traditional revenue streams) that they're not absolutely skint like Williams, Sauber or Rotus.

 

Very few teams on the grid are what you would call rich.

Merc and RB / Ferrari been the only 3 really of the 11 teams who would survive without sponsors. McLaren do alot of sponsor events to make up for there higher than average Sponsor related revenue streams.

Impossible to say what they make on each p1 sold, Its not 1mil + tax thats for sure. Most hypercars are sold at a loss or break even as they cost so much in development. The mp4-12c is ment to be highly profitable though. ( £35-40k per car )

 

At 3000+ units sold, it's fair to assume they've probably recouped their development costs, surely?

 

300 p1 ( the 1mil car) units spreadie not 3000 ( is the Mp4-12c thing ). Which as i mensioned is rumoured to make them £35k + a car. ( Some Car website had a link to cars they had made with estimates of development and profit they are making per car sold)

3000 p1s is 3bil if they sell that many then they would be the richest car company in the world id imagine. They have still made good cash whatever way we look at it.

Facts are there for all to see though Perez is paying for his drive in sponsorship, And Hamilton left after been offered less cash than he was on in the first place. Something just does not add up.

Main concern for McLaren is they pay for engines next year which has been said to taken a good chunk out of there budget.

Still about 6-8 good drives avail depending on how you look at it. With only the big 3 having confirmed whos driving for them.

 

Yep, mis-read Krikkit's post. Whoops.

 

Interesting piece from Chris Harris on Vettel, and why people don't like him

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=28668

 

It's hard to pin down exactly why I don't like Vettel. I know Senna would have ignored the team order to stay behind Webber, but I suppose the difference there is that nobody, especially his team mates would think for one moment that Senna would obey. Webber was clearly led to believe that Seb would toe the line, and that - coupled with the change of attitude to blunt arrogance at the end of the associated press conference - cemented my hatred.

The thing is, I really disliked Vettel long before that incident; and I fervently believe that both Alonso and Hamilton are better drivers.

Vettel is obviously a great driver, but his talent rarely gets to shine because he's always out in the lead and only very occasionally has to go wheel to wheel with other drivers. How long before the edge starts to dull? I think of Canada a couple of years ago when Button came through the pack and pressured Vettel into a mistake - had he gotten used to being unchallenged as far back as that, or was that just a one-off?

The car has been built around him and his driving style, which is absolutely fine, and that package has trounced all comers; but that is the problem. As the article mentions, over the years, the focus has been on the driver with comparatively little said about the engineering achievements behind the success of the car; but now the technical/engineering bods are mentioned as often as the drivers are, underlining the fact that this is a TEAM sport and that the drivers aren't superhuman.

I suspect I'd get just as bored and resentful if any other team was dominating the sport for years on end, and in truth I want closer competition. That goes back to what Alonso said a few days ago about RBR's dominance, when he said it was up to the rest of the field to raise their game to compete.

Let me be clear, I still hate Vettel.

 

I don't really understand this belief. Vettel's at a point, at 26 years old, where the only drivers with records better than him are Schumacher, Senna, Prost and Fangio. As a driver he seems to have no weaknesses at all, he can overtake, he can qualify, he understands team politics, he stays calm, he can ignore setbacks, he's completely ruthless and he wins monotonously.

Hamilton panics under pressure, it's not always as obvious as his lashing out against Button last year was but it still happens. He has a tendency to give up too.

Alonso is a poor qualifier and works poorly within a team, evidenced by how many he's been through and how the relationship always ends on a sour note, even if he's winning.

Alonso and Hamilton are much more exciting to watch, but exciting's not fast. Vettel's an insufferable arse to watch, but he's the best driver out there by miles right now. What's making it so boring is that he seems to lack a worthy rival, just look at what happened with Schumacher once Hill and Hakkinen were out of the picture.

 

Again, underpinned by the fact the Red Bull is leagues ahead of the rivals.

I'm not going to argue that it's all in the car, and I've already said that Vettel is a great driver, but you can't make your argument without acknowledging the car's considerable contribution to his performance.

 

It's not the boredom that gets me about Seb.
I have MASSES of respect for the guy.

the guy really doesn't seem to have much of anything outside of F1, and that makes him seem worthy oft he WDC titles he has.

What bothers me about him is just the fact that he seems like an ass to me.
He reminds me of people that I wanted to beat the moment they talked when I was in school. I know a few people that come across the same way, and don't like ANY of them.
His constant winning, loud celebrations, cries when things aren't going his way, etc all add to that. Other drivers have those symptoms too, but in Seb's case, it's fuel for the fire.

I know it's not fair, and probably not something he can do much about, so he simply has to deal with it.
That said, I HATE booing. In any form.

 

And?

You can say the same about Schumacher, Senna, Prost and Fangio. Would any of them have won without the industrial might of Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams, Maserati and Mercedes behind them? Between them they drove the most advanced and most dominant machines of their eras, but the cars don't drive themselves.

Neither Alonso nor Hamilton has ever been able to dominate, even when they did have a technical advantage, Vettel has completely destroyed them both, even with Ferrari and Mercedes money backing them up. The best drivers tend to get the best cars, only greatest drivers can take the best car and dominate with it.

 

What?

I said I believe that Hamilton and Alonso are better drivers than Vettel, and you counter by listing off all the things in Vettel's favour, most of which are boosted by the huge performance advantage of the car; and now you argue the car isn't relevant?

 

What annoys me about Vettel is he has it too easy. He is about to be a four time world champion RACING driver. I have never seen him race anyone. He has overtaken Webber before, but only aided by team orders.

His qualifying sessions annoy me. He puts fuel in the car for one lap, does a lap, gets pole. He doesn't even fuel up for two laps to see if he can do better. That's too easy. You've got Hamilton, Alonso and every other driver pushing them and their cars to get the best lap in. Until he has to fight off other drivers wheel to wheel to win a world championship I'm not interested.

What also riles me is when the world championship goes down to the final race of the season. On this occasion the race is like no other in the season. Drivers seem to let past the driver they want to see win. That's not fair racing. Cases in point, last season Vettel spun off on corner one in Brazil, then you watch cars fall over themselves to get out of Vettel's way, Schumacher being the worst offender, both Torro Rosso's also obliged. Case two, I still have no idea what happened to allow Hamilton to overtake Fisichella on the last corner to give him the 2008 world championship?

The world champions always see to have it too easy. The underdog never seems to triumph

 

Pretty sure it was Timo Glock that let Hamilton through to give him the chance of attacking Fisichella, that was more significant. Just being a stickler

As for Vettel at Brazil, ok so his good friend schumi lets him through, with both TRs, as in the Red Bull B team? What other scenario were you expecting?

 

Wasn't glock on dry tyres in the wet, hence it looked an easy pass?