News Microsoft's Windows Blue plans hinted at in job ad

I think the thrust of my argument has been that the desktop experience on Windows 8 is virtually identical to that of Windows 7. Keep using desktop programs, and you hardly have to bother with Metro at all.

As for your reluctance to use third-party programs for a good Windows experience, you are right and I strongly recommend you uninstall Firefox, Thunderbird, Chrome, OpenOffice, any third-party anti-virus or malware programs and mods like Rainmeter or Samurize. Also uninstall the Flash plug-in, Java, Acrobat Reader, WinZip or WinRAR. Microsoft should have provided these functions out of the box.

I see you ommitted: "It's still there" and "If you want the desktop experience, stay in desktop (duh)".

Conversely, just because it is a key function for you, does not mean it is the same for everyone.

In the olden days I used to use Norton Disk Doctor (when it was still good). Nowadays you can use the (free) TestDisk. Third-party, though, which I know offends your sensibilities (and I thought it was Microsoft who encouraged a closed garden!).

And how many of them use the information on BSOD? How many can make sense of it?

IE6 doesn't even run properly on Windows XP, let alone in compatibility mode on 7 or 8.

In such scenarios, there are other, better ways to deal with the problem: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902

Do you use NTFS or ReFS?

OK, I'm convinced. Roll back to Windows 7. Now.

Seriously, that's a problem?

If you list 30 features that have been removed, and I can show that 16 of them are in fact still there, many others can easily be added and the rest is not actually missed, then I think that kind of sets a pattern. But if you want to call that "crippled", be my guest. Perhaps we should create Windows 7 Hyperbole Edition.

I'm not trying to argue that the contrast between Metro and desktop is a smooth one. I agree that the flips back and forth can at times feel a bit jarring. I also think it is worth persevering because rough around the edges as it is now, it has a lot of potential and will get smoother (Ubuntu Touch shows some interesting alternatives for the Tablet-Desktop transition, but one that creates some new problems in itself). Arguing for going back to Windows 7 is self-defeating. Vista had many flaws, but does that mean Microsoft should have gone back to Windows XP? Instead it went forward and created Windows 7.

What I am saying is that the Windows 8 desktop is not significantly different from the Windows 7 desktop. Click on Control Panel; use ALT+TAB; do what you did in Windows 7 and you get Windows 7 behaviour and results. Use desktop programs and you get a desktop experience.

No, I said that I don't need to access the desktop for Tablet key functions. A "key function" for a Tablet would be to establish a WiFi connection, and I can do that from Metro.

I access the desktop when I want to do productivity tasks or hack the system on a deeper level than you'd do in casual Tablet use. Managing network drivers and their detailed configuration would fall under this.

 

No the thrust of your argument was.

I provided a list of what is different but your answer was, well install something else, use the desktop, don't use it, etc, etc.

And if the desktop experience on Windows 8 is virtually identical to that of Windows 7
Why would i want to use Windows 8 ? why are you saying to install third party programs ?

They do provide them OOB, handling zip files is built in, a web browser is provided, MSE is provided through windows update. You don't have to use Flash, Java.
If you really want to read PDF's there is less bloated software than Acrobat Reader

I'm not against installing third party software, but when you have to do this to bring back functionality that was in a previous version of the OS, then yes i object.

Again why ? if i want the desktop experience why not use Windows 7 with full functionality. Why would i use Windows 8 with the missing features and a GUI that im never going to use.

True, but we come back again to a feature that some people may have become used to being removed without a suitable replacement being provided.

Again why remove a feature for no reason, that was available in previous OS's when it serves a purpose.

Well that is something we will never know, but judging by how many results Google throws up i would say quiet a lot.

Ok maybe IE6 was a bad example, but the fact still remains the same that a lot of machines in the corporate environment still use old, mashed together Frankenstein programs/data bases, or need to test things on older OS's.

Again why install a program to restore the functionality of previous OS's

Ok, maybe i jumped the gun with that, but it is they way M$ are sending Windows.
Maybe ill come back and complaine about that one when Windows 9 comes out

Depends on who you are i guess, but you did ask for what is different from Windows 7 and that is.

Sound good to me But seriously i count it different, 2 from the list are still there but the rest are all features that have been removed or force you to drop to the desktop thus defeating the point in running Windows8.
And just in case i need to say it again, Why should you have to install all these programs to bring back functionality that was available in the previous version ?
Also i cant see many large corporation wanting to install all these third party programs just so there employees can do there job.

And i agree with you, it is not a smooth one but i feel M$ brought this about them selves, When they removed the start menu from the betas and by not wanting to let people choose
how they use it, like i said many posts ago if they had a simple choice on first install of using the new GUI or the old it would go a long way.

But sadly they decided to try and mash both the FSSM and the desktop together, and it just becomes jarring to use. IMHO they should have either removed the desktop altogether or not at all, as it is we have schizoid OS

See above And why use the desktop in Windows 8 if i can do that without any messing around on Windows 7.

As has been discussed what is and isn't a "key function" depends on the user, and you did originally ask what is different.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-8/manage-wireless-network-profiles

Again this falls under the why does the system have to be modified to restore functionality previously available.

 

If you want to use Windows 7, you are of course free to. I don't see a significant difference with Windows 8 from the desktop point of view. You don't want to install 3rd party programs? Dude, we've always installed 3rd party programs when we felt the standard functionality was not enough. We've done it since Windows 3.11. Suddenly, with Windows 8 that is a crime against the natural order of things.

Sorry, but that's where things are going. Look at the Google Chromebook Pixel: $1300,-- worth of Apple-standard high-res ultrabook goodness with the most simple, self-maintaining of OS ever. Because it's what most people want. It's not about us hackers anymore.

 

chromebook pixel is an waste of money for an very limited device, chrome book for £150-200 maybe, £1090 I can burn money on an apple laptop for that or high end laptop (running 7 )

windows 95 on wards with the stuff that was done it made sense, win8 not much main issue is hiding key functions from the user, but as your not at there level you just do not understand

I can't be bothered to join in your defence of win8 as you seem to love it so much, every person I have seen just find that windows 8 is not usable

how old are you any way

 

I'm not sure my age has anything to do with this. Neither should you assume that I'm not a power user. Let's stay away from ad hominem attributions and stick to a rational debate of the pros and cons of Windows 8.

Chromebook Pixel is indeed crazy money. Yet Google perceives a niece in the market. I try to imagine what it is. Who wants a quality high-powered laptop but with a simple, fail-safe OS that effectively maintains and updates itself?

Why, most non-geek users do. People will pay good money for an iPad. In fact, such basic computing devices are massively outselling cheaper, more capable PCs. Why wouldn't they pay for a quality device with the power and form factor of a laptop, but the failsafe, hassle-free ease of an iPad? Chrome OS has some small but very significant fundamental flaws. However if they got fixed (and they found be, very easily), then I can see how it would be a real proposition to many people.

 

Greetings!

Nexxo, that level of... "commitment" displayed defending W8 can not be healthy in the long term.

PS:

No longer sure that can be achieved.

 

In a ideal world there would be two versions of windows, one for touch friendly portable devices and a second one for desktops/corporate environments.

But my thinking is that as M$ tried this in the past with Windows CE/Windows Mobile and that didn't turn out to be the success they may have hoped for.
So i think they are now trying to leverage the success of there desktop OS to gain a foot hold in the ever growing tablet market.

But sadly IMHO they have done a bad job as Windows 8 seems to be a mish mash of both a desktop OS and a tablet/portable OS, neither working as well as people may have expected or hoped for.

So we have ended up with the FSSM suffering because at times you have to drop to the desktop due to (debatably ) missing features.
And the desktop environment suffers (again debatable ) because M$ wanted to make things simple to use for portable/touch devices.

Whether they manage to pull it of or not only time will tell, but looking at the figures things don't look good. as according to figures some %40 of all PC's are still running XP.
My guess is that most of those are in the corporate environment as steam only shows %5-10 XP usage, and i cant see the Corporate environment wanting to make the jump from XP to 8.

 

Yup, but XP usage was the same when Windows 7 was the latest thing. Didn't entice those companies to switch either. At work we have Dells with Windows 7 stickers running XP (talking about crimes against the natural order of things).

I agree that the mash between Metro and desktop is a bit clumsy, although it works well on my tablet and well enough on my desktop PC, where I stay mainly in desktop and notice no functional difference with Windows Vista --except that it's a whole lot faster.

The reason that I'm good with Windows 8 is that I can see the potential. It needs more work, but if Microsoft can go from Windows XP (or indeed Millenium) to Windows 7, then it can significantly improve on this paradigm too. I think that you're all being too anxious, too catastrophic.

And if you still don't like it by next year, there's always Ubuntu Touch to try out.

And such hate is almost like belief.

All the more reason then to decide Windows 8 is like Marmite: you either love it or hate it, and it's all down to personal taste.

 

It seems even though M$ said there would not be a public beta of Blue, they may have changed there mind.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-Blue-Public-Beta-Coming-332040.shtml