Your opinions please, I think there a bit of a joke and hypocritical really, levying drink prices on cheap drinks is going to hit the poor not middle class wine drinkers who knock back a bottle a night, there as big a problem as young people and the under classes. I was watching C4 news earlier and laughed when the SNP politician was saying if you want a cheap bottle of cider youll pay £2 more a bottle but dont worry you wont pay more for your bottle of wine. Wouldnt even say its nanny state its going past that, its a joke.
Sorry to disappoint you, but research has conclusively shown that the most effective way to curb people's drinking is to raise the price of alcohol (again, sorry). Economy is all about incentives, you see? What people want and what they are prepared to do for it. Of course we could try and change drinking culture; after all alcohol is fairly cheap in the Mediterranean and people there generally do not drink so irresponsibly. But frankly, people tend to resist changes to their culture (for lots of psychological reasons I won't bore you with here). Raising the price of booze is easier and more effective in the short term. You are right that alcohol abuse is just as rife amongst the better-off who start their day by ordering a few bottles of wine for lunch. But let's face it: when were people last beaten up by drunken City businessmen? When did they last vandalise the town? Frankly, middle- to upper-class drinkers generally behave better even when they are drunk.
I'm less opposed to this than i am to some of the other **** that comes out of ****wit Salmond's mouth tbh. A minimum price on cheap and nasty booze is not a bad idea, its certainly better than raising the off-licence age to 21 and a number of other proposals that have been tabled. Only concern is that if booze becomes dearer then what's to stop our poor (economically) addict moving to less regulated (taxed) form of escapism. Or even the local kids not sure if i'd rather have the local kids pissed or high on crack... On a personal note i just hope they don't use this as an excuse to raise the price of decent beer or even plain old wife beater, i'm not confident. The SNP have already banned the sale of discounted alcohol from Oct (?) ie no more 2 for £10 on cases of beer looks like i'll be organising booze cruises to New Castle at Christmas.
ah now this will be amusing, precisely who's going to get the extra revenue? Can't see the government sticking the minimum price of alcohol as a tax, specially not with the current opposition rising over the double VAt increase on alcohol this year, and the fact that the Scottish Government has no authority on VAT or excise taxes I believe . So will it be the supermarkets who can now have an excuse to engage in legitimate price fixing whilst at the same time giving them a public relations excuse for raising prices IE" its not us it the government", or will it be the breweries who can finally charge the supermarkets the same prices as pubs for alcohol without losing supermarket buy in. The only people I can see benefiting from this will be pubs as the price to drink at home will increase, and off license premises in Carlisle, Berwick etc.
Well, yes buddy - but why should drinking be curbed? I know bad things happen, but to stop those bad things happening punishments for doing bad things should be increased. Not collective punishment of everyone who's poor. Changing Scottish drinking culture is unlikely to happen. Drinking culture up here is one of the very few types of culture we actually have left. Raising the price is easier and more effective at what? Making me poorer? You don't make cars more expensive just because people speed, because people drink-drive, because people run others over. You punish those who do those things more harshly. Right now I have 3 cans of cheap Tennets beer sitting on my windowsill that have been there for a few weeks at least (I like to have a beer in the evening once in a while) - they're that crap, and not at least Cobra or some nice ale because I can't afford to drink really nice beer, I make do with cheap stuff. Buying cheap beer doesn't mean I'm going to drink 20 pints, piss on a policeman, and then go assault an ambulance driver. Just because some people do doesn't mean I should be punished. This is just typical SNP authoritarianism, society-correcting-legislation. Whether it works at whatever nonspecific goal they're aiming for, it's wrong, it's unfair, and it's punishing good people far more than it's preventing bad. Also, I might add, since the price of drugs on the street is generally either more cost-effective, or only a little less cost-effective than alcohol, I don't need to bother saying what's going to happen if the price of alcohol goes up a lot
Anything that gets the little neds off the streets drinking, when they should be in bed resting for school, is a good thing. I also agree with the notion of raising the age limit to 21, and much harsher punishment for shops that sell to minors. Will it actually work though? Probably not.
Can't see this changing people's drinking habits all that much, there will still be people who drink for the sole purpose of getting rat-arsed but they'll just end up paying more for it. In past, unexotic summer jobs I worked with people who often spent so much of their weekly wages on alcohol that they weren't able to afford enough food for the following week. It was shockingly common and I can't see these guys changing their habit. We clearly need to do something about this unhealthy attitude to alcohol but I just don't think this is the right approach - it just smacks of another ill-thought-out SNP policy. I'll be more than happy if I'm proved wrong though. Can't say I agree with raising the off-sales age to 21 either. I'm now in my 4th year of uni and I've only just turned 21 last month, I'd be a very annoyed student if I couldn't buy any alcohol until I'd nearly finished university! They tried this out in my home town back in Fife. It was largely unsuccessful and massively irritating when I had to drive through to the next village just to buy some beer for a bbq last summer. As just about everyone learns to drive at 17 back home, the tiny off-licence in the nearest town was always busy!
I'm not arguing morality here --just effectiveness. Punishments could of course be increased (all for that myself, actually) but just how overcrowded are our prisons again? As for drugs on the street, they will just follow market forces and also go up in price. Think about it.
Just another way for the Government to make more bloody money, utter ****ing joke. If people want to get pissed, they will get pissed, end of, cya research.
just another example of the nanny state and the erosion of any libertarian principles left in Britain tbh... I think a better plan would be to stop selling the cheap booze altogether tho my reasoning is down to quality control rather than alchies (on the subject of cheap manky scottish booze, i remember being rather surpised when being in a posh deli/off licence in rural Italy, they were selling Grants vodka for something silly like €30 in between Ketel One and Siwucha )
I disagree with it, not that alcoholism isn't a serious blight on Scottish culture, but raising the price doesn't directly address the societal problems that fuel our behaviour, rather just hide the symptoms. Firstly this further stigmatises alcohol, so while it will reduce it as the responsible and poor people are effected, it creates a worse image to feed on the imaginations of young people and neds, people who's income is as disposable at £5 as it is at £1. What really needs to be done is, parents need to introduce their kids to drink as an option in life and encourage it's responsible use rather than let them assume that high-school drink parties are the norm.
Why not just invoice people for the services they use? If you get so paralytically drunk that you require an ambulance, a trip to A&E and/or a stay in hospital you get a bill for it. Similarly if your drunken behaviour requires police intervention then you get a bill for it. Wonder how many people would think twice about over-drinking if they kept ending up with large bills to pay after every night out.
You can't argue with scientific fact. Unless you want to employ the same thinking that religious zealots do. Let's keep perspective here. This is not the Patriot Act or 45 days detention without charge. This is about raising the price of cheap booze a bit. If that makes people somewhat more discerning drinkers then it can only be a good thing. Like cheap $50,-- handguns, cheap 2ltr. bottles of cider and cheap crappy beer exist for only one reason.
Because even a moderate drinker can trip in the street. Now follow that to its logical conclusion, Smokers charged for pretty much all medical care they need, diabetics charged for every thing not just there prescription drivers charged becuase they run in to a deer on the road when they were 5mph over the limit. Now you might as well charge every one for all there health care.....
Way I see it is, why bring in legislation thats gonna hit the lower classes? Its gonna do nothing to the middle/upper classes lets be honest. If this is just to stop selling cheap booze to kids, hit the shops that sell it to them. The laws already there just requires enforcement, This new piece is all a load of bollocks. Very few people do that though, I've seen business men and supposed professionals fighting and there just as bad, lets face it though when its on TV or in the paper its either young people or the lower classes. Its like stabbings, you watch TV or the read the Daily Fail, you'd think when you walk out your door your gonna get stabbed by a hoody, even though from latest figures your more likely to die from falling down the stairs. I'm not saying there isnt a problem there is, but resolving it comes from education, I doubt any new laws will change a thing as the enforcement still needs to be done, if kids want alcohol theyll get it, till the rules that are already in place are enforced to there full extent. Plus from what I've heard from scottish ministers this will only affect supermarkets and off licenses not pubs and clubs (again I got this from the dude off C4 news last night), so will make no difference at all to city centre drinking culture, which just destroys the whole argument. Finally you think how much it takes to clean up a city centre (again these wont be affected since there doing nothing against pubs and clubs) vs how much it costs to give someone from the upper classes treatment for liver disease or failure on the NHS, not quite the same is it.
Those laws have been proved to be ineffective. Raising the price of alcohol has been proved to be very effective. You yourself point out the ineffectiveness of the law: As for education: Yeah, that's going to happen... Sorry, but I know people who work in alcohol addiction services and law enforcement. On Friday and Saturday nights, the police cells and A&E are largely filled with neds, not people in suits. Market forces, dude. If the price of alcohol goes up in supermarkets and off-licences, pubs and clubs can afford to raise their prices a bit too. They're in it to make money, remember? The trick is not to be cheap, but to be cheaper than your competitor. Let's assume that we can cancel out the cost of medical treatment and working days lost between the drunken ned and the drunken business bod, as well as prosecutions for drink driving etc. Let's also ignore for convenience that the business bod generally makes more productive contributions to society and pays more tax and National Insurance. Then the additional costs incurred by neds are: Clean-up and repair of the city centre Increase of police presence Increase (by 40%, 70% on weekends) of visits to A&E Processing and prosecution of those arrested Keep in mind that this is every weekend. What makes people cut down on drinking? An increase in the price of alcohol. It isn't a clever strategy, and it isn't sophisticated, and as a psychologist it annoys me that such multifactorial complex human behaviour is so effectively changed by such a crude measure. But the scientific fact is: it works, quickly and efficiently. Sorry, but that's how it is. And what price increase are we talking about anyway? Yeah, we're talking real bankrupcy here. Frankly, if you can't afford a £6,-- 2ltr. bottle of White Lightning then possibly you should sober up and re-evaluate your life priorities anyway. All too often in my mental health job I walked into homes on estates with bare lightbulbs and old bedsheets for curtains, little food and no heating for the several young children with learning disabilities living there. But there was always the latest Sky Box hooked to a big-screen TV and the equivalent of £50,-- of cigarettes and booze on the go each day, every day. Trust me: we're not depriving the poor of essentials such as food, or heating or clothing; or even of some nice luxuries. People can learn to drink a little less. God knows they need to.
I didn't point out the ineffectiveness of the law I pointed out its there, but not enforced strongly if at all apart from the odd spot check. If there was an issue and they were concerned after 2 failed spot checks or information and concern provided by the police a shop can have its license to sell alcohol removed. Then you removing shops that cause the problem without the need for legislation. If the price of alcohol in Supermarkets goes up the pubs will finally have the win they've wanted where they can sell alcohol for cheaper, which will just make more people just go out to the pub and club getting hammered there. Which means more neds on the street, although if I'm honest I find that most people who are wasted on a Friday or Saturday in hospital on a weekend aren't neds or chavs, there people over the legal age who've gone out to get wasted. So please don't start this hate war of we hate neds and chavs, your just using a massive brush stroke to label them all as irresponsible drinkers and no offence but why would they ever act or behave better when your misunderstand, mistrust and put them down at every attempt. This is you btw its just everyone I do it myself, there are some idiots but thats not the majority. Finally you are depriving the lower classes, drinking will become for the middle/upper class and those who can afford it. But then again since I've seen nothing about stopping the sale of cheap wine, because if you drink wine you must be a responsible drinker, just makes the whole thing look like a joke. tbh the Daily Fail will be in a pickle over this because well they'll want to bash it over the nany state but at the same time it will be good at stopping all the rampaging youths from stabbing you in the face when you go out. Oh yeah finally, I've seen what high prices of alcohol does (predominantly in Finland) but thats why they have booze cruises and go to Estonia over the water to get there alcohol, there was also a small increase in the number of suicides as well from what I've seen after prices were increased which is astounding in a country with one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
are they going to put stop checks at the border & charge people for importing it from England? If not people will just pop across the border, stock up & drive back. Reckon that it would cost me about £20 roundtrip to Carlisle & I could easily pay for that with the savings. If I owned a Transit (& a lot of people do) I could get even more in. I can't see this as actually workable & a lot of supermarkets/off-licences in Scotland would be affected by sales going across the border.
