Ok so I've decided next September that I'm going to University. I would like to think that after studying Games Design I could get a job within a dev team. Thing is I dont just want to be 'stuck' in one section of the computer industry for the rest of my life. SO... do you think it would be best that I studied Computer Science instead??? Are any of you guys/gals studying this at the moment or have studied it??? TIA
If ure going to go to uni choose a subject that you like to do and will be motivated to do. Then look at different uni's to see what they are like and what there courses are like then apply.
Thanks dude! I found this.. Think I'm going to have this as my first choice.. http://city.ac.uk/study/courses/informatics/computer-science-with-games-technology-bsc.html By the way, I'm going to need a laptop for uni. I have my eyes on a Mac for a while. Do you know if it's a wise choice to buy a Mac with this as a subject?
Please, for your own sake stay away from anything with the word 'game' in. The UK is crap for game design (apart from indie firms which are usually just 5 friends in a basement), and thanks to Call of Duty the job market is about to turn from 'tricky-impossible' to '5+ years experience only'. It's already pretty much at that stage. At the moment, the influx of people into 'game design' courses is massive, and more universities are offering them. I just had a quick scroll of UCAS, and there are 241 courses with the word 'game' in. Now, let's be extremely cautious, and say that 10 people are applying for each one. Some there'll be more for, some are indistinct (such as game design and computing, maths and game design, etc). Let's also remove 41. It makes a nice round number of 200. That means that each year, 2000 people graduate in game design at university. By the time you've left university, around 8000 people (and that's a conservative estimate) will have started looking for jobs on the new Call of Duty. How many people are employed in AAA games? In the US, 80,000 people are employed in video games. If we do a really simple substitution (80000 x 60/300) we conclude that there are around 16000 professional game developers in the UK. That seems rather optimistic in my opinion - there are plenty of non-games design related tasks, such as the entire publishing part of it. Especially since the US game industry is far bigger than our own - Realtime Worlds was a major blow, for example, whilst Pandemic barely tipped the radar. So, even with an extremely pessimistic estimate, the number of graduates of courses with the word 'game' in them is likely to be around 50% of people currently employed with games in the UK - probably more. Chances of employment? Probably not that high. Especially since the UK games industry is currently shrinking, after periods of around 10% growth. In terms of computing itself, I can't give you any real advice, but what I'd say is that you shouldn't pick up a vocational course - ie one that spends much of its time teaching you for a specific task (such as these new iPhone development courses). Languages can be learnt in not much time at all, but the basic concepts often require a pretty big helping hand. Its why the top universities tend to prefer maths over computing at A level.
What you can see in taking is Computer Science with gaming courses as elective. See your academic advisor (you may need to call for an appointment), for assistance on how to do this properly, or of perhaps different options. An alternative solution, could be something like I have at my University. Computer Science Gaming Application. This program gives you all the knowledge, and thinking to become a real computer science, but also have courses focused on gaming instead of something else. When you apply for a job, I was told, that the business really doesn't care what sub-division you took. As long as you have Computer Science or software engineer (same thing, same salary, same job), that is all that counts. The only difference is that it's a 'preferred' option for the employer, for select fields like networking or gaming. It's not a must requirement. Not to discourage you, but to be realistic, when you start in the gaming industry.. you won't work on AAA titles. NO WAY. This is a position you need to earn from experience. Why? 90% of all you will learn at university is outdated, but not useless... it introduce you, and put you in a 'state of mind', and know some basic stuff, like: 3D objects further away don't need hundred of polygons, but close to the camera do. (simple optimization trick), how to move a stage object while idle, and to learn about time base movement or cycle base movement (faster your CPU, the faster you/object move), basic collision detection, other optimization tricks, and so on. When you will start in the gaming field your salary won't be good, and you will do cellphone games... and I don't mean iPhone games... I mean basic cellphone games, like snake in Java, using the number pad to move. Then after a few years, you move to smart phone games, than crappy games, than more crappy games, and finally after several years of experience, and debugging/improving code to learn about some engine the company created and use, you get to work in good games, and finally you reach the top range level: good to very good wage and work on AAA titles. Basically, what I am trying to say, is that you work from the bottom up. Game companies can't afford AAA games that requires super super computer to run due to bad optimizations, or be plagued with basic bugs that should not exists in the first place, and bad Object Oriented programming (difficult and requires a lot of experience). Before working in the field, any programming field, you need to know MINIMUM 2 programming languages: Java and C++. University will teach you.. most likely, Java from the pure basics to something reasonable. You might need to seek an elective course to learn C++. Java to C++ is not very hard... but C++ to Java is difficult. C++ is a difficult language, and their are no ultimate compilers for. Even Visual Studio, a very good one, especially the 2010 one, can be lost for idiotic things, like: your code has errors everywhere or has a linking problem, but everything is correct. Why? change the order of the "include" library/header files, and it should work (if everything is correct). It's silly, annoying at times, but that is just one flaw. Sounds bad? Some other editors/environment is a joke interface, with no option at all. Some you have to manually make Makefiles to compile your code and it freaks out because you forgot an blank line at the bottom of that makefile, or it doesn't take a Tab... or something ridiculous like that. Others, are in between. They all have their strength and weaknesses, with different focus. It's not that their is no effort in C++. On the contrary, it's just extremely complicated to do, especially that C++ is so flexible, as it give ways several possibilities to do 1 thing, that it can't predict the user programming due to it's high flexibility, and also due to it's history, is what makes it hard to make a compiler for. Some focuses everything on the compiler, and nothing on the interface, others it's the contrary, other is a balance. Anyway, back to topic. Go in Computer Science path if you want to open all doors. Though, avoid sub sections like web development.
This can't be stressed enough. There's no point in going to University to do something you don't/won't like, or will merely tolerate because you think it'll get you the job/career you want. If you do something you enjoy in uni then you're far, far more likely to do the necessary work to actually excel in the topic and not just pass with mediocre grades at best or just drop out at worst. I agree with what's been said on the 'games design' courses, as well. I honestly think you're better off with "Computer Science and Software Engineering" on your CV than "Computer Games Design" or whatever, simply because the game development companies are inundated with deluded hopefuls doing those courses and the devs know how shite most of those courses are. I actually think you're better off going in with a solid foundation in all of the principles and skills you need in the industry and a portfolio of game-development work (such as mods for existing games or original creations) - Both of which should be developed on your own time and by self-driven learning to show enthusiasm, drive and talent as an individual; then back all of that up with a formal qualifaction like a CSSE degree. The games-specific stuff they teach on games design courses is generally fluff that you can learn on your own once you know the important underlying principles and languages. All the degree means is that the potential employer knows you will have the foundations of the skillset they need and that's why I believe a broad CS/CSSE course is a far better option than a gimmicky games design course. There's thousands of CS graduates out there. You have to set yourself apart from the crowd to get where you want to be and that can only come from what you do in your own time and with your own motivation to show a potential employer in the games industry that you're not just another games design graduate.
Go on to a course you want to study but avoid games courses as said they get you nowhere, with a computer science degree you can still get into a developer if your good enough with coding or 3D etc and imo its best to get used to all parts of game design so go download blender and give it a whirl to see what you can come up with I originally was gonna study comp.Science but then found a digital forensics course which sounsd alot better to me and there are future carrers in essentially being a cyber cop
I did study Computer Games Development at UCLAN and found it so dull I left. Now I'm studying Natural Hazard Management with Geography. I went from looking in to the future, which I hated to looking at the present, and now I'm loving it. So do a course that you think you will enjoy, not what the world glamorizes to you. Heck, after I started my course in NHM with Geography, I found out geography it's one of the best employable courses! Double win for me in the end.
There so totally is. I'd been hearing the old "If you don't like it you won't study" nonsense and believed it just like everyone else. I did two years of maths and philosophy, which I loved, but is insanely hard at my uni and required me to work about 75-80 hours a week most weeks. I then changed to chemistry, which at the time I thought was boring and now I know is boring, yet I'm getting brilliant marks, I have time for other things in my life than university work (friends, extra circular activities, etc.) and to be honest I'm perfectly happy studying a good course which I find pretty damn boring. Also OP, study Comp Sci, or some Eng course - studying a vocational course into a dead end career path is suicide.
I've always wanted to be a games designer... so I chose maths. I guess that I figured the games industry was going to be hard to break nto so I wanted to keep my options open, that and I couldn't imagine myself going through higher education without having studied maths. In a way I think I've kind of given up but that's OK for me as I'll probably continue pursuing it as a hobby. Oh and Pieface, good luck with NHM, it sounds like a really worthwile thing to do.
Hmmm thanks for the advice guys, I think I will follow the Computer Science course with the tipple of gaming in it so while Im learning I get a little taste of what I'd be getting myself into if I used the CS degree to go down that path. Thank you for the good reasoning you have give and enjoy your xmas hols!
Yes you can. But like most professors say in class, when asked: Not recommended - come to my office for a copy of Ubuntu (or some other free Linux distro). So, yes, you can. And with languages like Java, you could not care less. But on some courses like database, installing MySQL and make it work properly (or wtv else they might use) will be a University project all by itself due to the lock down OS. Languages courses like C++ will be another problem. While you can make it in Linux or Windows fine, finding a decent editor for C++ on a Mac is difficult (editor sucks or the compiler is a joke), also, the corrector or professor most likely doesn't have a Mac, so it will be always a problem to show your work and get it corrected. If you learn.. well you will.. OpenGL, then it's a different set of problems, as you'll need to find a library that follows the same API commands as the ones of Windows and Linux, or re-invent the wheel by programming everything yourself, like basic shapes, which will be a pain and time consuming (I doubt the prof will give you extra points). Everyone I know in Computer Science and Software Engineer (as many courses collapses), they either sold/selling their Mac Book (Pro) for a PC, or running dual boot Windows, and live with Apple terrible Windows drivers or keep their MacBook (Pro) to type notes in class, and use the lab computers to program. A cool thing, is that most likely your University has your program registered with MSDNAA. That you can get almost ALL Microsoft products for free. This include Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate (normal price: ~16k U.S), packed with XP licenses, Vista, Win7 in both 32 and 64-bit for all. Windows Server, and much more, including DOS 6.0 The list is long. On my side, I have Office 2010 Project Manager, and Office 2010 OneNote. You will love OneNote. A great note taking software. Just be sure to include the slides of the course before coming to class to complete them with ease. And have the symbol tool ready. Or configure OneNote to do stuff like \A to convert it automatically to let's say ∀, to help you on those math symbols, and edit the ribbon bar to have the symbol table ready. Other than that, you would be fine. Although I recommend to be comfortable with OneNote before coming into class... else you'll start digging for stuff while you should be taking note... and that could be a problem. If you want to play it safe. On those pesky courses, use pen and paper, and put everything in OneNote (or wtv software you use) at home. Math heavy courses, requires a pen and pencil or those really expensive tablet PC (not worth the price), as the other ones, sucks terribly, you'll fight with the digitize screen. Be sure to have a good backpack, with a laptop compartment, especially if you need to travel a lot. If you do, then laptop weight won't be any problem. A 14inch laptop is the max I recommend for a laptop. A high screen resolution like 1440x900 (assuming a 14inch laptop) is also highly recommend. In addition, be SURE that your laptop has: - Very long battery life - maybe get a 9-cell battery - Plugs might be hard to find in certain class... and many of your fellow student will be using low end system, with abysmal or very old batteries. They will run to these wall plug. - Non-Glossy screen. You'll thank me for this. While many will try to find the perfect spot away from the room light, and always plays with the screen so that it doesn't reflect the light so that they can see the screen, or boost the brightness at near max to see their screen, killing their battery life. You'll have no problem, and you can focus on your work. - Laptops can be a very helpful tool, as it can fail your class. You'll need to know how to control yourself. NO GAMES (trust me I saw some playing games in class... why are they in class, paying a high fee for that class, and end up playing games? is really surpasses me - they fail their class, trust me, if not know as they might be lucky with the bare minimum passing grade, then next, more difficult class). Avoid e-mail, facebook, and all that. In fact, turn off your wireless in class. No one will IM you, e-mails won't disappear, and delete your facebook account. You will be fine. If you can't control yourself, change your account password to some absurdly long one, which you write on paper (or use a game product key or something), and create another limited account with parent control set so that you can't fall onto any distractions. - If you are looking for a laptop.. then don't hesitate to look under Small business section of Lenovo or Dell. You don't need to be a business to order their, most if not all laptops don't have a glossy screen. Noticeable superior build quality and quieter (quieter keyboard and mouse clicks as well - won't annoy the whole class). Warranty service is superior then Home, and, while I can't comment with Lenovo, for Dell it's more relax (and local during office hours). BE SURE TO GET: Next business day on-site service. This will assure you that you have your laptop in your hand ALL THE TIME, else you will need to ship your laptop (some brands you have to pay shipping, Dell covers you, I don't know about Lenovo) and the process might take a week or 2. this next day on site service means that a contracted firm who provide IT services, that is trained for your laptop (great, now I sound like a TV ad), comes to your place when you want, starting the next business day from the day you call (assuming you don't call super late at night, where it will be the day after), and comes to replace any hardware that might cause issue. With Dell Canada, any damages done by the tech, including scratches made by home or her, is covered. Also the job is done next to you, so you can assure the work is done properly and that your problem is solved. Yes it cost more.. but trust me it's worth it. I would also get a 3 year warranty with that service of the same length to really be safe. You never know when your HDD might fail due to transport, or any hardware due to manufacture error. Heck after a year and half I had my Intel Wireless card fail. I got a new one, the tech came and in 5min he was done replacing the card. A friend of mine got a Lenovo without the On-site service, he had to wait a week to get his keyboard replaced (not laptop in the mean time as he had to ship it) as one of the keys did not work. And he told me, he wished he got that service. too late now.
As a CS student you'd probably get Windows and all the Microsoft development software for free, so you could always install it on the apple. Looks like you've already got a windows desktop, so there doesn't seem much point in getting a new laptop. If you can travel to/from university in a car it's perfectly possible to take the desktop... It's a bit of a pain, but definitely worth it.
They work fine, fairly stable, might lack some 64-bit drivers (Apple is very slow, probably to promote MacOS), and the performance out of your computer under Windows is not optimal and battery life is reduce. A PC with the exact same specification or equivalent, running Windows, provides better power efficiency and better performance.
I believe you, but I think you're the exception, not the norm and your situation is comparing apples to oranges because the topic you liked happened to be extremely intensive and time-consuming while the one you just tolerate but excel at is more reasonable in its time cost. Almost anyone will be happier in university if they have time for other things, even when comparing something they dislike to their preferred topics. Plus, you seem driven & focused and your posts on the forum strongly suggest that you enjoy intellectual pursuits. I don't think that's the case for most students at university these days and most wouldn't fare as well studying something just for the sake of studying it and/or getting their qualification. It's not a case of "Study something you like or you're destined to drop out.", more that it can be easier to maintain enthusiasm and good grades when studying something you like. The time-consuming nature of a course is a factor that has to be weighed separately against the individual's enjoyment of the course, I feel.
