Tottenham Riots

I will be very surprised if there isn't an element of organized crime involved here.

 

Isn't there though!

On the news people we saying to be organising meeting up via Twitter & the like!

 

Violence begets violence (Or, hate begets hate, whichever suits you).

I've not, yes I am living under a rock, heard what sparked this reckless vandalism, nor do I much care what sparked it - Because even with a cursory glance it's clear that the spark is no longer the reason for the continuation of this farce.

I understand that escalation in a situation like this is potentially more explosive and damaging than letting it peter out, as it inevitably will do (check the spread; http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie...d=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7 and it becomes clear that it, while floating around the country, it is not engulfing the country in flames). However, as the "law enforcement" for the country, and with this so clearly being directly against the law, I can see the desire of a normal person for a stronger reaction towards the looting and generally yobish behaviour.

I'd like to quote MLK (Specifically; "Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love... Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the white man, but to win his friendship and understanding." – MLK), but given the apparent foolhardy nature of the looters, I do not believe any amount of compassion, understanding, or "Love" is going to change their mindset of 'I can get free stuff'.

I don't have a theory of what to respond with, if not more violence, because I am not equipped with the knowledge of how to disperse rioters.

The more people that are brought into "combat" this looting, the greater chance that someone will make an error of judgement and kill someone - From either side - Which will no doubt spur the entire thing on with a genuine cause to fuel their fire.

I know London, especially, is going to look like **** for a considerable amount of time. I know this is going to have an effect on the economy (Large scale clean-up always costs more than people expect it to, after all), and I know people are scared that they're going to lose their possessions. So far, the looters haven't killed anyone for their belongings (That I know of), so the fear is going to be fleeting.

As Supermonkey said, I think trying to control this and quash it is going to cause more issues than just letting it run its course and arresting who and what they can as and when they can.

 

I can understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree to let this run its course. This is people's livelihoods being destroyed. It wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't sorted tonight in some manner then vigilante groups start appearing soon.

 

The issue with letting it run its course is that it sets a terrible precedent no? That there is going to be almost no consequences for whats going on. And I just think it will get worse and worse as it spreads :/

And Ph4lanx has a point, I reckon vigilante groups will start appearing, and no doubt they will get into more trouble than the looters.

 

I agree with this. This is wildly different to any comparisons to Northern Ireland, the middle east etc. I don't care what is being bandied about as a reason for the riots but the vast majority of the rioters and looters now have no political motivation whatsoever and are just kids joining in because they can.

I was in Birmingham city centre last night, I expect there are a tiny number of people left actually fighting for a cause here or in London. A little bit of force would go a long way. Most would stop when they see actual real consequences to what they're doing and the numbers left will be able to be dealt with by the police.

 

Letting it runs its course is a BAD IDEA!!!!

These animals already think they have the upper hand and are NOT AFRAID of being arrested cos they'll be in court one day, out the next doing the same thing!

If it was up to me I would have a firing squad in there and be shot the lot of these mindless idiots! Nobody will miss SCUM like this!

This is what happens when we vote in a WEAK Government. Maggy Thatcher would have already being in there by now cleaning up this mess! Grow a pair of balls and sort it out Mr Government!

 

QFT. This is also a part of this country's problem. If vigilante elements start to appear you can absolutely guarantee that it will be them getting the punishment.

Of course vigilante action should not be encouraged but when people see the police not being able to cope with the trouble, what other option do they have? Wait indoors for the trouble to get to them and hope that the police have rallied to a point where they can stop the violence?

EDIT-

Totally agree. And let us not forget that if they do get caught and sent to prison they will have an easier time of it inside than a lot of the population have outside. Again, another part of the issue - prison is not a punishment. Prison should be a concrete box with a bunk and a bucket, not a friggin 4 star hotel room.

While we're at it make hard labour a part of sentencing. We have how many people in jail? Make them work. I'm pretty sure 500k+ free workers would go a long way.

 

no-one is to blame other than the mindless idiots, who have no respect for anyone else or themselves

there is no justifiable reason for wanten destruction and violence in a supposedly civilised country.

they are criminals, plain and simple

they should bring back the riot act, which gave rioters1 hour to disperse or face the consequences, and that protected the protectors from prosecution if they injured or killed rioters and looters.

 

An old chap on the radio this morning mentioned that during the War, anyone caught rioting would be shot on sight. A little dramatic some may say however; I feel if we show them we're not to be walked over, they may think twice about vandalising other peoples hard earned property!

 

Remember most things are not covered with insurance when theres riots. Come near my place I will what have to protect my belongings and go down fighting. Is this stupid maybe but everybody is just watching or joining in.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

 

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr...974646&Signature=O1s4ZPCZteS+EWPKwX/wcyX0GQI=

Unbelievable

 

I understand that it's livelihoods being destroyed, I understand that people living/working in/near the areas of violence would want the harshest response the country could muster, but doing that just adds to their fire. They will run out of steam, and run out quickly, with no viable cause.

Hitting back will only give them cause to come back time and again to "fight the power".

Do you have a viable, non lethal, method for subduing large numbers of people, and subsequently guaranteeing that no one innocent (Believe me, there will be people claiming they weren't looting, and good luck proving they were) gets caught in its area of effect?

Didn't think so. As such, punishing everyone involved in the looting is a practical impossibility, short of ID tagging every human in the British isles. Incidentally, if you wanted to give them something to riot about, start ID tagging everyone in the British Isles.

Wow. You are extreme. Extremely stupid.

If you shot everyone who'd ever wronged anyone (Because let's face it, shooting someone because they're looting is the start of a slippery slope. Why not shoot murderers or rapists? They're causing long lasting mental anguish, after all, which is more painful than a financial loss. Then why not shoot paedophiles, because that's just wrong. How about people that park inconsiderately and cause massive traffic flow issues, they're causing financial damage (And arguably damage to the planet, causing cars to stand still running longer..)), the world would just be some foetuses and babies. However, I have strong arguments that suggest they've wronged me.

That, so far, seems like the most reasonable and sane option. However, the methods used to disperse the rioters would need to be strictly monitored, recorded from multiple angles, and reviewed by several people - If only to shut people up, and to make sure that Police officers weren't just beating people excessively.

Again with the shooting. Are you a mass murderer in (A very bad) disguise?

 

Sorry mate but ANYONE within the groups themselves are a part of it whether they enter a shop to loot or not. IF they really are innocent bystanders then they shouldn't even be there, any sane innocent would be long gone when violence rises to such a degree.

Have to disagree here. If they we're read the riot act then they are fully aware of what will happen if they dont make themselves scarce within an hour. Anyone still there after that has absolutely no defence and will take whatever beatings are directed their way. They were told, they didn't leave, tough ****. If someone told you 'dont touch that fire, it will burn you.' would you still complain about getting burned because you then touched it? I think not.

 

This is great to see:

http://twitter.com/#!/search/@riotcleanup

 

They may think twice ... is that the "they" you just promulgated be shot for looting?

Are you proposing wounding (can't see anything going wrong operating that as a policy ) so they can learn their lesson or shoot 'em dead as a permanent solution for them and a lesson to others. Just wondered ...

+1 Rich

It's one thing an unintended injury or death occuring in the rage of such an event. It's quite another to operate a "shoot to kill" or even a "shoot and if someone dies, c'est la vie" policy.

You cannot let anarchy run its course in a democracy (ideally this kind shouldn't happen anywhere). At what point would you support real action against the vandals and looters, when they reached the end of your road?

 

Oh, no, I agree - But try proving beyond reasonable doubt that they actually were. It's ridiculous, but that's how the law words. Innocent until proven guilty. It'd take years to catalogue the evidence, and probably longer to build a usable case of undeniable evidence to prosecute anyone caught that way.

This isn't personal, but everyone seems quick to suggest just shooting them, but.. Really? Does no one see that as step way, way, too far? Even shooting them in the leg is dangerously extreme. Yes, they're assholes that need dealing with, but shooting? Really?

If they reached the end of my road, they took a serious wrong turn - There's nothing to loot in this city. Unless they intend to make the Cathedral the only one that's been destroyed four times.

Seriously, though, giving the ill-educated looters that're roaming the streets a front at which to direct their violence (Be that massive police reaction, army, whatever) is only going to end badly. It's been demonstrated time and again that, while a good number of Police are only doing their job, there are the odd few that are just in it for situations like this - A license to beat some people with blunt instruments and not get prosecuted for it. Given the large number of Police out tonight, I'd be surprised if there were not cries of police brutality in the morning - Just or not - that will simply pour petrol on the fire.

I suspect, though, that the vast majority of the looters are opportunistic criminals, and will be put off risking it in the face of such a large police presence tonight, and that tonight will mark the end of mass "rioting" anyway. Isolated pockets of looting I expect to continue for another week or so, but the massive outburst we've seen in the last few days, I don't believe will continue as it has done for much longer.

 

Well done... thanks for comment!

 

In the last few minutes it has been announced that a man has died after being shot whilst in his car by rioters. Now tell me we need to let this 'run it's course'. That one death has made this more than just riots.

 

And wasn't a policemen stabbed in liverpool?
This was already waay out of hand, I don't get it, people are breaking the law, they need to be stopped, simple as, if someone is robbing a jewelers, the police don't sit there and watch until it's blown over then arrest them.

And for the record, only a couple of people are actually suggesting killing the looters, which is ofcourse OTT.