Bit-tech has lost its spirit

Well CTHippo, thats part of the problem; the wider audience has alienated a lot of the others who get tired of newer individuals who dont quite get into the flow of things in the bit-tech community (the flow being the patterns of behaviour and posting styles we're used to).

Not everyone is here for modding, but it was the heart of the bit-tech community - a heart that needs a defribillator at this point due to the relative evaporation of well made constructive criticism and intelligent analysis of the process.

As for the hardware and overclocking area, perhaps a wiki is in order; that way, the burning questions can be answered. It would take some effort to structure it in an easy to navigate fashion, but it would be wonderful to just look up CAS Latency and be introduced to just what it means, with built in references to RAM voltages, and everything else there that makes wikipedia great

 

I gotta admit I'm with Roto on this one.. The spirit has died some... Even with my very limited time here, I have seen it.. I joined Bit for the modding experience and to see those really wild mods and projects... But that has vanished somehow.. It's turned into questions that has been answered too many times because people cant figure out how to or see what Google has to offer.. Not that I dont mind answering questions... Im in the trenches writing a FAQ about tools and materials as we speak... It's a slow process..
I saw the forum before they split the Project logs into two, and now it has this feeling of "death" to it because nobody hardly post's in the comment's section.. Not much anyhow... Before it was like being there with the modder sharing his vision about HIS project, maybe ask a question or two that perhaps had been answered elsewhere, but none the less, people made more comments... Remember that if you have to go to another thread to post it, you read all the other comment's before you post.. And maybe you forget what you wanted to ask or comment.. Heck.. I have a bad short term memory but i try.. And i dont post many things let alone new topics... I like the idea of lurking about here and there.. Till later... I gotta get back on this FAQ thingie...

 

I’ve been a member for a little while (I don’t post much) and I find I’m visiting less often of late.

The ‘community’ that kept me here to start with has gone. Someone's siggy says “I came for the mods, but stayed for the spam”. I may have misquoted that but I think that now is the reason I must bow out.

Oh and the serious discussion has degenerated into a USA, UK Vs. anybody type thread (USA Vs. UK as well). It doesn’t ‘piss me off’ it just irritates me that people don’t seem to learn or have tolerance of other peoples views or opinions. This is not the site for politics, there are plenty of forums that cater for that.

I will add, on a positive note that I’ve learnt a lot of things here, but I’m hacked off with people not reading the FAQ’s, using the search or even Google. I know that there are a finite number of modding sites out there but a search engine should find them all.

I may be growing out of it, I’ll be 36 in July, but it seems to me that quite a few people of my age are also not coming here as often.

Cheers,

Smashie (aka Mark)

 

indeed i agree... tbh thats why im not as around as much as i used to be..

also i agree with what RotoSequence on his first post fully.. sorry

edit 2: i just read what Bindibadgi, and i agree with everyword...

ben

 

Why not? Posting on the forums is a priviledge, not a right...

Sam

 

Here's a breath of fresh air... or not...

Modding PC's runs a nice parallel to hot rodding and if you're familiar with both, I think you'll see the future of PC modding quite clearly and its not nearly as dim as some portray it. In similar fashion, PC modding forums aren't much different than organized hot rod clubs and in the case of BitTech, it could be compared with Good Guys. I'll be going to one of their gatherings this weekend with the comparisons in mind. Their earlier shows had a couple hundred cars... this weekend should have a couple thousand hand-built beauties on display. The earlier shows' cars were almost entirely handcrafted by one guy, not unlike Nexxo's Metaversa. The cars today rely heavily on the aftermarket parts manufacturers... but there are still dozens made entirely by hand and by one or only a few people. Today's handcrafted hot rods often rely on high tech shops, not unlike GT69's work.

That the two hobbies are so similar is not lost in BaDassumption, by the way...

There will always be a few willing to push the envelope and raise the bar, like Nexxo and GT69. They'll keep some of us very interested. There will always be new people with questions. They're either accomodated or go elsewhere.

All that said, the way of posting worklogs here at BitTech sucks. Its not a dialogue. I have yet to build a custom rig without the benefit of dialogue with other modders and don't think I would find it at all interesting or encouraging. That there's a separate comment thread may keep the log clean, but it ain't good enough. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of vapid posts either, but I only peruse the archive mod forum.

Me likes the "Old Skool" group idea... kinda reminds me of the Kustom Kulture.

Also... I think more of the modders with nice rigs should be encouraged to write articles about their work afterwards... and those should go on the front page... maybe as often as every couple weeks. Worklogs are great, but the finished work often deserves a better and more concise showplace.

That's my opinion, anyway... like arseholes, everyone's got one...

 

I have to agree the political disucssion has no place in a modding forum.

 

I joined more for the geek community then for the modding. I liked to see the friendly peer pressure that drove people (see the desktop, overclocking and worklogs). I also came to see all of the alternitive views relating to software and hardware. I stayed because of the community spirit. I also stayed as a sane and moderate american viewpoint to balance some of my gun crazy countrymen.

Then I got bogged down in opening a restaurant and was out for 3 months. When I logged back in the first time, I was quite suprised that I didnt recognized any of the avatars or screen names. And I was shocked at the posts in the hardware sections, it seemed like there were only 3 questions being asked over and over.

I still come and look at the mods and the hardware sections, but I stay away from the discussions now. Mainly I just check up on the people I know and see what is new.

But I definately have to agree that the knowledge the brought me here and the spirit that kept me are intertwined; that both are waning. Edit: The knowledge is still there, that hasn't changed. I think the attitudes and spirit in which it is shared has.

 

Well you get out of it what you put in. Sure, Malf is Canadian so enjoys posting threads that dig at Bush. Post Canadian news threads for discussion if you want, or whatever. We have had some good serious discussions with people taking all sides of an argument. If you dont agree with it DONT READ IT. It's not compulsary viewing.

FYI: Your comments are being heard and some changes are being discussed behind the scenes atm. If anything gets finalised you will all know

 

I guess that's just a logical consequence of having a Serious Discussion forum. World politics are close to everybody's heart at the moment --they are making a direct impact on people's lives. So it is unavoidable that this shows up in SD. We don't really like to censor subjects if at all possible; we prefer to think that the community are mature enough to handle a serious (sometimes passionate) discussion in an adult fashion.

 

Hmm, there have been some interesting things said in the last couple of pages. I havent been here for all that long i guess and am a fairly sporadic poster, i tend to go through phases - pretty much like the community as a whole i guess when i post stuff. What i think reflects the fact that i am not in anyway part of the IT profession in my job - PC's and modding for me is purely a hobby. Therefore i will probably be one of those who may ask a question that brings sighs etc from more 'hardcore' members. But as said before it is this expansion of the community that will doubtless encourage this sort of thing - do none of you actually feel good about helping people less experienced or technically minded or even creative with sorting out a problem or guiding them during a modding project? Ive had loads of help from folks here - thanks for that its always appreciated - and ive also been able to help others. Personally i think that creating a special forum section for invites only is a bad idea and can only drive a wedge through the bit tech community.
I do agree a little about the modding logs though - there are some bad ones/small/unfinished/unoriginal ones there - some of that is down to personal taste, but everyones got to start somewhere. I do enjoy reading the good ones though - man some people have talent here, and skills with tools that i really wish i had If there has to be a 'premium' section - i reckon it should be accessable to all but should include project logs that have been voted into that particular sub forum - so not "look ive put a rad in my case and sprayed it orange, what should i do now" with hundreds of pics of hardware boxes and cans of paint, but major/interesting mods in progress to really showcase the talent we have posting on bit-tech.

Well, thats my 2p as they say - bit tech isnt really in decline - just changing as modding becomes more 'main stream'. Its worth keeping the community folks!

 

And BTW, Nexxo - thats one nice looking case cooling project there!

 

after I saw this thread yesterday, I had a good long think before posting on here, but seeing as I have been here for quite some time now, and quite distinctly rember the days of the crusing light mod performed by one koolvin, I think that with the continuous growth that bit has undergone, change is iminent (scuse' the spelling if I get it wrong)...

...what we started with was a website plus forum that was run pretty much 100% on community spirit! back in the days of, check out my celeron 300rig, which I have overclocked a woopin 66mhZ and I have added another fan I ripped out of a dead psu, and here are some crappy photos I took on my shweetAs 1.3mp Digital Camera!!! We even used to have people taking "real" photos, getting them developed and scan them in to share with everyone! Now that is commitment!!!

....then fastforward everything to the now, where so many now use the internet (and thus bit-tech) on a daily basis, that in order to survive it has changed from something that lived of comunity, and the input of the individual, to a proper run business (kudos to snr. Haz & co for all the hard work)...this means that not only as a community, do we get more reviews, and articles written by our own team, but also a lot more contact with manufacturers and developers, so the idea of a manufacturer taking our input seriously is actually feasable now...

...yet this growth, has also called for the need of a business plan, hence bit-tech are now not only making all this available to a lot of people (think infrastructure+bandwidth needed to run this place) but also catering for a wider audience...thus the forums have grown, and the number of members with it...(well a bit of a chicken and egg situation, but nevermind...)

...so all in all, yes, the comunity spirit has been lost quite a bit, but to me its like moving from a small town to a city!! one has a really good comunity spirit, everyone might know everyone else, so everything runs very smoothly, but due to the small size there are other restrictions...ie. in london one can pretty much see any band from any genre of music, whereas its not gonna happen in a small town...I guess it depends on what your looking for...if you want the community spirit, set up your own forum and tell your best buddies about it (or so it all starts ), yet if you like the diversified content along with a few guys who have been here since day 0 (pretty much) then stick around...

...but as someone else said...upS N downS

 

I agree with most of what's been said, I miss the old days with KV's guess what it is to win a case badge competitions, but that's usually the way with me, old times were always the best times.

 

I don't think anyone minds helping out someone new or less experienced at modding. However I think the problem lies in the approach that the new person may take.

Some people ask a very direct question (e.g.: "Is this radiator enough to cool this system?"). They obviously have done some background reading, or have an appreciation that they don't know anything and need to start at the beginning. That's fine --we all started like that. We give some answers and explanations, we give them some links and advice. They read it, and come back with sensible follow-up questions as a result. Everybody is happy.

Then there are those who don't know anything, but want to jump in at the deep end right away: "How do you overclock a PC?" when they don't even know what a CPU is. So we have to explain EVERYTHING from the bottom up. Of course they don't want that --they want a short, simple answer when no short simple answer can be given. So either they get churlish and rude, or the barrage of follow-up questions starts: "What does a CPU look like?"; "what is a BIOS?". Basic stuff that they could have easily found out for themselves already, but they refuse to read the links we provided which would explain all this, they refuse to do a simple Google. Advice to learn these basic tools is ignored because that is boring and they want to get to the sexy stuff now. The next question invariably is about water cooling and we start all over again...

Which brings me to those that want others to do all the work for them. We regularly get: "This is my PC, design a watercooling loop for me". I'm sorry, but they have to do some work themselves. Watercooling is not something you do by rote; you have to learn some basic principles and the only way to do that is for them to work things out for themselves. Otherwise if something goes pear-shaped (as it inevitably does) they won't know what to do (which leads to another barrage of obvious questions). We have no problem at all with: "How do I design a watercooling loop?", or with "This is the watercooling loop I designed; so you think it's OK?" and giving advice on it. But people have to be prepared to do some work. In the same camp is: "what motherboard should I buy (no criteria provided), and can you provide the best price and a link to the shop?" (someone even demanded that we convert to the right currency for him). Although we are happy to advise people on, say, a good board for overclocking, or HTPC, or SLI, it is really a small matter to shop around for yourself. We're not being awkward; in modding you have to learn these things yourself. They are important to master.

So it is all about investment and return, really. We help newbies who help themselves. We get annoyed by those who show no sign whatsoever of taking on board any advice, or making an effort to learn some basic things for themselves even when we tell them where to go.

 

Well, neither does the Music forum, or the cars forum, or the software forums, by that logic!

I have to say, I never read the hardware forums anymore---there are very few interesting threads that descend further than "what graphics card should I buy?".

Mind you, I'll live with it. It's not possible to have 22,000 members and expect decent chat on each thread, unless you really do start banning for stupidity

Sam

 

Ive only been on here a short time and i cant comment on what it was like, but i really do like the sepatate projects log and discussion,

i like the fact that ifi want to look at a project i can from start to finish with out any breaks and i then go to the discussion page of that log, i can then see what questions have been raised. ive mainly been looking at finished project or nearly finished projects and i think it works well, the only grumble i have is when someone doesnt put a link to either on the threads

the old way of ding it was a bit long winded, someone could put 4 posts of a project and then have 2 pages of OMG that PWN3D orca or the likes, or you get alot of questions and then one update post and 2 more pages of "what is that shiny thing?" or someone quotes a pic, you get the idea and mainly because of this ive either missed steps cost ive just jumped through a page cos all i want to see is the process.

as it is its good and easy to follow.

Modding side of thngs are like whats happend in the car modification industry (my other hobby) 10 years ago 90% off all modded cars were origional and made by the owner now 99.9% are the same old body kits fitted painted and sprayed by a big company, to get in a mag or on a show you have to spend £20-50k+ and its got to be special.

Norris Designs latests attempt was gettnig a EVO8, they tuned it to stupid power, they cut 4" out of the length and 3" out of the width of the whole car (body, Chassis) and that was termed good, (not amazing good) and it cost the company £110,000 to do.

its a similar thnig in PC Modding but with less money (not much though) and its gettnig boring cos im in the middle of a project and i know its know where near the standards or inovtivity that has been seen but im bored of the deige so im doing it, and i know some one will compare it to the best thing that was made by a company with £1k of machinery and man hours at their disposal.

whats next?

the other thnig that makes me laugh is that people are complaining that Noobs are startnig new threads to questions that have been answered, ok it does happen and they should shearch, but if you do find a thread that has a similar question answered but you have one more question and you revive the thread from 2002 all the reply you get are

Holly Thread Revival Batman !!!!1oneone

so that can put people off so they start a new thread

and this thread as well there must be 20+ threads ive read with all the same or similar things in it

so i say and read the other posts

 

Well I hope not, that I am repeating myself here.. I totally agree on what youre saying, WE (The Forum) have the problem of too many asking the same questions again and again...

I have a prayer for everyone new here..
Do the search, Google some, and read some similar threads before you post.. That way the forums will prosper into new life.. I would start a FAQ if you like, update it one a week, no promises though, i have limited time but if we help each other.. But then that will not make a quarantee that people read it..

Perhaps you have to ask a question, but this is not kindergarden.. If you do your reserach first and you are still stuck. Then ask.. We will answer.. But we dont hold your hand while you mod..

And yes... Some need to realize that if you bump an old thread it's actually for a reason...

 

I miss the old internets.

 

Thats the best bit Seeing someone who's having issues get them sorted and understand what they didnt before.
It can be frustrating with some of the newer members, and other members adding OT or useless posts/info don't help.

LOVE helping people, work in tech support, the best part of the job is getting something fixed and working. Makes you feel warm and fluffy inside...
As with work though, people need to provide the right information in order to sort a problem, which is often the hardest part, esp if the wrong questions are asked..

Anywho back on topic.....