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Other Airsoft, it's not a real gun!

Discussion in 'General' started by legoman, 15 Jul 2012.

  1. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Probably quite a big one. Tackling the drug cartels and gans of the Americas would be a very worthwhile effort. Since the US is unlikely to win militarily, and no other country stands a chance, decriminalisation and and cheap supply is the obvious way to put them out of business.
     
  2. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

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    It may reduce major drug related crime but surly even cheap supply will increase petty theft and mugging?
     
  3. doyll

    doyll Minimodder

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    Many of the drugs are addictive and dangerous.. Don't think they should be legalized.
     
    Last edited: 23 Jul 2012
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    You mean like alcohol and tobacco?
     
  5. doyll

    doyll Minimodder

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    I think cocaine, crack, meth, opium, heroin, etc. are at a different level than
    alcohol, tobacco & weed.
     
  6. doyll

    doyll Minimodder

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    Need to subsidized them first ;p
     
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    How?
     
  8. KayinBlack

    KayinBlack Currently Rebuilding

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    I'd separate out marijuana as it has a lot of actual health benefits, but tobacco and alcohol are just as bad for you (and tobacco gets forced on everyone around you to boot) as heroin or cocaine, and many people lose their lives to them every year. Sadly, many of the victims are not the users, as well.

    I still cannot fathom how either is legal, but I know the government makes too much money on it to care.
     
  9. doyll

    doyll Minimodder

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    Have you every known an alcoholic?
    Probably and they are usually not a big problem.
    How about a cocaine addict? usually function normally but will spend every quid they have on their monkey... and many loos everything, job, home and family.
    Someone strung out of crack? same drug as cocaine but many times stronger... keep an eye on them.
    Opium addict? probably not... kinda like an alcoholic
    Heroin addict? real layed back as long as they have a fix... very unstable without it.
    Meth head? Totally unpredictable... never turn you back on a strung out meth junky.

    Alcoholic is a shadow of what a meth head, crack head or heroin addict are.. no where near as violent or unpredictable.

    Of course you know tobacco smokers... is an addiction but not violent.

    You probably know some heavy weed smokers too; physiological addiction but not violent.


    Society has enough crutches. Let's not legalize more.
     
  10. KayinBlack

    KayinBlack Currently Rebuilding

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    Your join date is new enough, and I daresay you don't frequent serious, but I have shared in th epast my mother abused my brother and I horribly and then killed herself because of alcohol. You had no way of knowing, and I don't think you did it to be an ass, either. But for those like me who will never be able to leave those memories behind, alcohol can be just as bad or worse.

    While I understand what you're trying to get at (as I have counseled addicts before) the mechanisms are much more similar than people think, and alcohol's "saving grace" is that people simply don't think it's a problem until it's too late. If I'm not mistaken, you're referencing the different forms the physical addiction takes, but alcohol in particular is a mental addiction, and your body will quit craving a drug-try getting your mind to. Ask me about opiate addiction-it's an unfortunate side effect of being on so many pills to function. They're legal, AND I get them legitimately (and have to do urine tests and all that jazz) but without them I'd fall right the **** apart. I didn't even get a choice-my disease isn't curable. This is all they could do for me, but it doesn't make me any less addicted. God help me if I have to skip even a day now.

    I know that your posts were not meant as flippant as they came off, and I know that most people never expect to have someone come in behind them with something like that. But unfortunately with the legality of alcohol as it is and not much emphasis on responsible drinking by the media, I feel my horror story is probably being repeated more than people think.
     
  11. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Since you seem to do a lot of counseling, and apparently have counseled addicts, I'm curious if you have any data regarding the rate of alcoholism among the populace. I'm curious because in your previous post you mentioned the health benefits of marijuana, but placed alcohol with the other 'hard' drugs. I think your opinion of alcohol may be limited by your personal experience, and you're overlooking the various studies that indicate that there may be some moderate health benefits to drinking alcohol. Do some people abuse alcohol? Yes, but I'm not sure if the number is enough to warrant making it illegal.

    Edit: I feel I may have pulled us off topic. :blush:
     
  12. Mechh69

    Mechh69 I think we can make that fit

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    IN the State of Florida YES I can justify killing someone who breaks in my home the law is on my side.

    An intruder can not dis-arm me with holes in his head and chest. He will not get past the bedroom door. You break in my house in the middle of the night YOU WILL DIE I shoot first and ask questions later when it comes to the safety of my family.

    Very true that's why you "train as you fight" so it is more muscle memory than emotional reaction. There is plenty of time to think about what happened after its over.

    Mr. Burglar breaks in the house, neighbors hear gun shots calls police, police get 2nd phone call stating I just shot an intruder in my house. Police investigate and find out I was protecting my family and "I do not have the duty to retreat in my own home" Police call morgue to come pick up the body and carry said burglar away in bag. I'm sorry that he was in a bad situation and broke in to the wrong house but knocking on the door would have been a much better and safer option.
     
  13. SuicideNeil

    SuicideNeil What's a Dremel?

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    The sheer naivety on display here is astounding; you do realise just how much money is spent on dealing with crime that is directly related to alcohol, right? I'm guessing not. What about the cost to the NHS directly attributed to smoking and alcohol? Nope?

    I'll fill you in...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...moking-costs-nhs-pound5bn-a-year-1700509.html

    £5 billion a year spent on treating smoking related illnesses ( 2009 figures btw ).

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5561217/3bn-cost-of-alcohol-to-NHS-every-year.html

    £3 billion a year on alcohol related illness or incidents, with a million cases seen ( 2009 again ).

    The cost to the economy is staggering, the cost to people's lives and families is even greater; think very carefully before you dismiss such things as being trivial compared to 'hard drugs'.
     
  14. doyll

    doyll Minimodder

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    KayinBlack, I'm sorry.

    My father was an alcoholic and abusive. Enough said.
     
  15. doyll

    doyll Minimodder

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    I never said or would I say they are trivial.
    You think the above are a huge burden on society...

    Legalize the "hard drugs" as you call them and you will be wishing for "the good old days".
     
  16. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Just to cap it off I should disclose that I'm a clinical psychologist and my wife an addictions counsellor. :D

    So in answer to your query: yes, I've met most forms of addicts, some wretched, some absolutely nasty, some 'functional' and in denial. The drug of choice has little to do with it. Addicts gonna addict.

    What you need to separate is the damage done by the drug, and the damage done by it being in the criminal sphere where its purity, strength, use and commerce cannot be regulated.
     
  17. Apocalypso

    Apocalypso Fully armed and operational.

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    I think there's little point arguing about the relative merits or otherwise of self defence laws when our own law is radically different than yours.

    You can only argue the moral justification, it's the only common ground we have in this case.
     
  18. KayinBlack

    KayinBlack Currently Rebuilding

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    For those viewers at home tuning in later (a few years for both of us) I'm a certified Christian counselor, and former marriage counselor and hospital chaplain. I'm in a very taxing position as well-knowing all about addiction and tied to a medication that not only allows me to have a semblance of a normal life but also shackles me heavier and heavier.

    Nexxo, this has veered off course but has been surprisingly civil. Should this split off to Serious? It looks like a good candidate...

    Doyll, I think some of your statements could use elaboration, but you have a very popular view as well as one that some research bears out. The issue there is all the ones that are the opposite-or even people like me, who are in-between and science doesn't have a ready place to put us-even though we've been seeing people addicted to painkillers since we invented the stuff. There are surprisingly few concrete answers out there.

    Also, in the spirit of disclosure, yes, I do have an issue with alcohol. Hell, just as some people look at a person that espouses a deity as being possibly mentally deficient, I have reservations about those that drink. Having cigarettes repeatedly stubbed out in your face can give you issues like that, but I have to be honest with myself at the same time that the vast majority of people that drink do not become abusers, and as well I have to admit the complicating factor of my mother's as-then undiagnosed schizophrenia that she was medicating with alcohol. Her baseline behavior was erratic and strange, but her behavior when intoxicated is the closest thing as a human being I could fathom as being actual evil. Not evil, that term we use for a person that's generally a dick, but evil, the person that destroys to watch it burn and see the anguish in the eyes of those afflicted. So yes, I do in part project that upon others, because even as a grown man I have trouble seeing past the illness and my experiences. I have panic attacks around people who are drinking, especially if they act intoxicated (which they generally get when consuming alcohol.) I can't even understand the thought process that tells a person that it's OK to imbibe a substance that deliberately lowers their inhibitions and takes control of the self away, let alone the issues of hepatotoxicity and alcohol poisoning. (That is straying dangerously close to semantics, even if they are facts, and I am aware of that. Just as I'm aware of my issues with the substance.)

    I am an ardent supporter of those who wish to stop, but I don't do so hot with how. In these cases, I keep a network of colleagues who are better with the subject. Generally speaking, they understand why and respect the choice-then again, 28 years later, the whole town still knows about what happened, too.

    TL;dr-I'm just as crazy as everyone else. I've had good plastic surgeons (and regular surgeons) and a boatload of psychologists, psychiatrists and counselors (and for a while, very powerful drugs. Sometimes we need a hand dealing with depression and the ilk, even if we deserve to be upset.)
     
  19. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Sure, but not from my iPhone I'm afraid. Next time in on my main rig, which won't be until tomorrow evening I'm afraid.
     
  20. doyll

    doyll Minimodder

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    Years back (30+ years) I met John Bradshaw when studying inner child therapy. Working with him, attending his workshops and being support groups did me more good than any other therapy I know of.

    I find it interesting how the inner child therapy has grown.
     

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