The Westboro Baptish Church is basically universally reviled for protesting at funerals and such, and they protest niche beliefs. They're considered incredibly inappropriate and distasteful, and people respond angrily when they do this. It seems to me then, that if you want to make a meaningful protest about things, funerals are not the place to be. So why are parts of the media up in arms about arresting anti-monarchy protesters who are protesting at a funeral? Personally I don't much care whether we have our ceremonial monarchy or not (and if you wanna debate that, we have another thread for it) but I think it's the height of distaste to protest at a funeral and these people deserve to be arrested, removed from the site, and if their individual actions were bad enough, to be charged and punished. Am I missing something? Wrong place, wrong time, surely?
I agree. I remember when people were protesting at the funerals of fallen soldiers in America too, it definitely isn’t the time or place. Nor are places where people come together in remembrance of those that have passed. I think those that do choose to protest at such occasions lose their arguments, whether valid or not, by the fact it just comes across as a cheap and nasty publicity stunt. If people felt so strongly about the Royals, why wait till the Queen died and there was a cortège carrying her body with her family present? Are they not entitled to grieve in peace?
I agree that it's distasteful (and mostly pointless, people's views on the monarchy have been well known for ages), but the issue is heavy handed policing, in a country that is taking a worrying trend towards an erosion of rights. If you believe those people should be arrested as part of their peaceful protest, can you explain which law they've broken?
There is the potential for public order offences I guess. How long will it be before someone reacts to said protests and a brawl breaks out? The cops can’t win in that situation so maybe some of them have tried being preemptive? I wouldn’t go as far as to say they should be arrested, unless they are in breach of any existing public order laws, but I would definitely argue that they are pulling a crass publicity stunt and using a public act of remembrance and mourning to gain press attention. For that alone they deserve a good old slap ;-)
Aye but if you were out protesting about an oil company's profits outside of their head office and you were arrested in case it caused some executives to react and start a brawl? In my mind, this is being done to give special treatment to the monarchy through the use of excessive police intervention. Let's face it, how many of the flag waving royalists seemed like the type to kick off?
When people run into sporting events and disrupt the activity tens of thousands of people are enjoying, they are arrested for breaching the peace. This is regardless of whether they are protesting something important, and it is not controversial that they are arrested and charged for this relatively minor offence. Why is this circumstance substantially different to that? And why should it be more controversial? I suppose there is some point about public vs private land, but a pitch invader is not arrested for trespassing...
Change your pitch invader for a fan in the stands holding up a sign saying "abolish the monarchy", do you still agree they should be arrested?
I mean, your point initially resonated with me, but actually, can you call it a 'peaceful protest' when you stand at the back of the crowd and heckle while people are having a respectful silence? Granted one person was being peaceful and respectful physically - and was just holding a sign - but plenty of others have been vocal and disruptive. They aimed to gather attention, and disrupt, in the middle of an overwhelming majority of people who wish to peacefully mourn. IDK, I guess I just don't feel we need a law which says "Don't attempt a political protest during a funeral". It's common sense, right? Be kind and courteous and treat others with respect. They are going to cause offence and distress, and not make people care about their cause. Not a fair equivalent. Standing in the football stands with a sign saying "Abolish Football" is going to upset people. Standing outside an abortion clinic with a sign saying "Abolish abortion" is going to upset people. Standing at a monarch's funeral - no matter how respectful you are standing or quiet you are - with a sign saying "End the monarchy" is going to upset people. I fully believe in the right of peaceful protest, but again as above, wrong place, wrong time.
Hmm, interesting counterpoint. I think I largely feel this was heavy handed because the monarchy are a public institution, it feels more like protesting about the government than a series of individuals?
Protest the monarchy sure. Protest them outside the various palaces and homes, that's fine. Start a movement on the internet. Stand as an independent MP with a manifesto. Whatever, there's plenty of ways you can try to effect change. Protesting at a funeral is never, ever going to get people to your side. If anything it's going to connect your viewpoint to people who are willing to disrupt a funeral for attention, and push people away from the topic. As a side note, since there's a thread about the abolishment of monarch already: If I was designing my own government, the government would be partly elected, partly appointed (like jury service) and contain no monarchy (or religion for that fact), with a constitution clearly defining what the government can and cannot do - requiring a mass referendum with minimum turnout and majority vote to change in any meaningful way. It would be centred around the benefit of all, and capitalism would basically be over. The royal family can get jobs or live off investments. If they don't want to upkeep homes and palaces, we can give them to the national trust. I probably wouldn't entirely do away with the pageantry and history that having a monarch comes with, as it's a part of our heritage. But it would be entirely ceremonial and akin to a English Heritage re-enactment.
I guess what it comes down to is that although I think peacefully protesting at a state funeral is crass, I don't think it should be illegal.
Do I think their actions are crass, ill timed and disrespectful? Yes. Do I think they should be arrested for their misjudged protest? No. It is not against the law to hold a sign or to heckle a person in the street. What you ended up seeing (rightly or wrongly) was society self policing - i.e. protestors being shunned or excluded by those there to mourn quietly. Yes, this could devolve into violence but formally arresting someone is overkill and heavy handed. Protests that don't cause any offense of inconvenience are normally very ineffective because they can be ignored so being able to arrest protestors for "breaching the peace" or other such vague wording is a very slippery slope. Acting violently or damaging property - yep that requires policing, being a nuisance (in the form of protesting) does not need policing.
I mean, I am happy for them to be just "removed from the area" so if arrested, escorted to their home, and de-arrested is the way to go, then so be it. I think charging the woman who silently held the sign is overkill - but I agree that removing her makes sense, she badly misjudged it.
I await Extinction Rebellion gluing themselves to the road on the funeral route. They never seem to miss an unpopular stunt to trivialise their cause.
Protesting at a funeral, it doesn't matter who I like/dislike there's a time and a place and a funeral is never it. Media whipping people up into a frenzy over this, of course, they need to push units, if people weren't arrested the media would also be whipping people up into a frenzy, mainstream media is all about that, pushing garbage to sell units, wouldn't surprise me if they paid someone to protest and kick things off. So many twats about, they all need a good bloody beating with a truncheon , there's an element going around Bristol deflating SUV tyres as a protest.....if I catch one doing ours there is going to be trouble.
If you want to protest the monarchy then surely you would protest at the coronation of the living King rather than the funeral of the deceased Queen?
I think some have at the proclamations. But yeah, I mean how on earth does anybody think protesting at any funeral is either correct or helpful to their message?
No fan of the monarchy, but deliberately going out of your way to protest at a former monarch's funeral is uhh.. Well. Firstly, disrespectful to the surviving family members, secondly uncouth, thirdly just plain weird. I do believe, however, that Priti Patel's efforts to make protesting more arrestable have been used to arrest people unnecessarily. With the comments about that collection of psychotics in America - I know they protest at these things a lot, and a lot of things actually, but do they ever get arrested for it? I don't recall them getting arrested, just counter protested and generally irritating people. There was someone holding up a sign that was escorted away by police, I think Gareth linked it in the 'should the monarchy be abolished' thread, and that's the sort of thing I expect to see happen more often in the UK - That raging ass Patel has made it significantly easier for police to silence protestors, even if they're just holding up a badly made sign. That, I think, is what people are getting shirty about - Not because they think it's right to protest the funeral, but that it's now an arrestable situation. Even if it leads to no charges filed, it's still an inappropriate response to a non-violent protest.
