1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

News Apple's Tim Cook strikes a blow for security, privacy

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 17 Feb 2016.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    12,686
    Likes Received:
    1,967
  2. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    145
    Really the only thing that comes to my mind is: where's the money? How are apple benefiting financially from taking this stance? Don't get me wrong, it's a good move but Apple aren't a company driven by ethics. Which leads me back to my original question.

    OK one other thing comes to mind. Where's Google in all of this? Have Google just bent over for spy agencies. Are Android phones already compromised?
     
  3. Flibblebot

    Flibblebot Smile with me

    Joined:
    19 Apr 2005
    Posts:
    4,654
    Likes Received:
    151
    The money would be from Apple being able to say to all their potential customers: "Look how important we rate your privacy. That's why you should buy an iPhone/iPad/iCerebralImplant". It may not have a direct benefit now, but is something that Apple could use in the future.

    Talking about money, the government should be careful going up against Apple - remember that they have more cash than the GDPs of many countries. Apple can just throw lawyers and money at this problem; I doubt the government would be able to do that.
     
  4. Icy EyeG

    Icy EyeG Controlled by Eyebrow Powers™

    Joined:
    23 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    517
    Likes Received:
    3
    I agree, this is all about reputation: "Don't leave our walled garden: they'll eat you for breakfast out there, you are not safe! We take care of you...".
     
  5. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    13,345
    Likes Received:
    2,277
    Isn't this just as much about the US government attempting to use a single instance of terrorism to set a precedent?
     
  6. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    145
    I think you're both right it is a PR move to an extent. The letter certainly is.

    However Trump has come out saying that Apple should do what it takes to allow the FBI into some terrorist / mass murders iphone. In general Trump is a moron, but he does represent the views of a considerable group of Americans. So Apples move here isn't going to be universally considered good. It could be perceived as aiding terrorism. Which is awful PR for any company. So I think there is a bigger picture here that they are protecting themselves financially by taking this stand.

    One video I saw indicated that one of the big drivers for keeping governments out is that Apple and Google want to be the sole owners of your data. This keeps the value of your data higher. Whilst a government may not want to sell your data, if bulk collections can be accessed through freedom of information or someone else exploits government back doors it may water down the value of customer data for companies who's products (Siri, Gmail etc.) collect it for monetization in the first place
     
  7. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    3,646
    Likes Received:
    330
    The loss of corporate contracts once it becomes apparent that their phones are no longer secure could be expensive for Apple. Not apocalyptic but a hit they wouldn't want to take.

    Plus once that access software exists, the Chinese will demand it on all phones sold in China by default, which means the Russians will do the same, which means GCHQ will demand it and so on.

    Then there's the inevitable and massive lawsuit once this hypothetical software ends up in the hands of organised crime, government departments and human beings in general being such paragons of efficiency and honesty.

    I don't think Apple want s any of those headaches.
     
  8. MoldyOldyGeek

    MoldyOldyGeek New Member

    Joined:
    10 Feb 2016
    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    If Apple cares so much about our privacy and security, why do they still have a gaping hole in theirs? To whit, iCloud backups are not encrypted. So all that carefully encrypted information stored on your iPhone suddenly becomes 100% accessible once it's backed up to iCloud.

    If I were the cynical sort, I might say Apple wants to have their cake and eat it too.
     
  9. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    7,700
    Likes Received:
    99
    Apple has done the first decent thing in years in my book. Long may this stand continue. Sick of governments bleating terrorism as a excuse to trample our privacy rights.

    If the FBI can not find the information using the text messages they got from the phone company and the call records they also got and all the information on the computers they are pretty useless anyway in my book.

    Apple also realises if you give this to the United States then every government will ask for it and demand it. China / Uk / Europe most governments would demand this access.

    The funny thing is the share price rose on the back of this news lol
     
  10. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,348
    Likes Received:
    331
    If the terrorism excuse is wearing thin we could always pull out the won't somebody think of the children line. ;)
     
  11. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    7,700
    Likes Received:
    99
    http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

    Apples letter to its customers.

    Does make you wonder just how far the American government will go in the premise of anti terror stuff.

    Dout they can sue Apple either as they would basically be telling every Operating System in the world we demand access.

    You could even see Microsoft , Google and Apple all fighting on the same side for once against such things.
     
  12. Locknload

    Locknload Jolly Good Egg

    Joined:
    28 Jun 2009
    Posts:
    222
    Likes Received:
    8
    Hmm, this stinks a bit.

    My own feelings are that it is a huge commercial risk for Apple to grant the FBI access to its code, therefore it will not.

    It will throw the line that they have refused the FBI, and as already mentioned, they will receive huge E-kudos for this, they may even dodge the FBI's attempted access, but they will give it to another agency with discretionary oversight provided by Apple.
    They will tell every other country that we did not sell out to the security agency, but they will.

    There is no way the US government will accept a "no go" parameter regarding Homeland security issue on American soil. They will do whatever it takes to get access, we all know what they are capable of...

    Remember, The greatest good (regardless) will prevail.
     
    Last edited: 17 Feb 2016
  13. Locknload

    Locknload Jolly Good Egg

    Joined:
    28 Jun 2009
    Posts:
    222
    Likes Received:
    8
    I have changed my mind...I do not even accept that they can not gain access without Apple.
    I think that is complete balls!
     
  14. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    13,345
    Likes Received:
    2,277
    NSA probably can - maybe they just don't want to share their toys with the other children?
     
  15. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    7,700
    Likes Received:
    99
    Would not be the first time. Theres been rumours before that from the 6 onwards they were pretty much unbreakable due to the way they had set up the security.

    Does america have the balls to really chase Apple on this, If Apple decides to say Screw you and takes its workforce out of america there would be bigger questions asked.

    if you enter the wrong Pin 10 times it stops you entering a pin for 1hour that process repeats again and again. so it cant be just brute forced.
     
  16. Locknload

    Locknload Jolly Good Egg

    Joined:
    28 Jun 2009
    Posts:
    222
    Likes Received:
    8
    Microsoft, Cisco, Google, Facebook, Apple, Intel, At&t....The same rules will apply to all these about disclosing information needed by American security agencies.

    Basically, " We get it, or its over for you" No exceptions.
     
  17. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    7,700
    Likes Received:
    99
    Then they say we are taking our billions in taxes elsewhere goodbye. Its not complicated what might be is how the american goverment tried to swing the Billions it would lose in taxes if the big tech companies said bye bye America.

    You would see another Economy Collapse.

    Even if they banned Apple trading in USA they would not lose much, China is there biggest buyer followed by the rest of asia and India then Europe. Can you imagine if they ban all tech companies from trading in USA if they dont hand over the access keys.

    America would return to the stone age.
     
  18. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    3,646
    Likes Received:
    330
    Return?
     
    Guest-16 likes this.
  19. MightyBenihana

    MightyBenihana Do or do not, there is no try

    Joined:
    8 Sep 2011
    Posts:
    1,279
    Likes Received:
    47
    Remember Trump polls between 15 and 35% of only republican voters that turn out to vote.

    Say republican and democrat are about 50/50 (republicans are actually a bit less, but lets keep this for the sake of argument). Voter turn out is about about 25% (again it is usually less but trying to keep the numbers easy).

    US population is about 320 million, half of which is 160 million, 25% of which is 40 million. taking a fairish average of the Trump vote at about 30% gives about 12 million people at best.

    So yes Trump and his views represent a lot of people but lets not pretend his views are in any way dominant.
     
  20. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    145
    You don't need to be a voter to agree with Trump on this point. There's bound to be Democrats that see Apples actions as pro terrorism or anti American also. My point was a quick non exhaustive way to demonstrate that not everyone is going to agree with Apples stance and that it carries risk of negative PR. And so taking the stance that they have must be for reasons greater than essentially a PR stunt that would be the equivalent of an advertisement which indicated Apple cares about customers or their data.

    Others in the thread have made good points as to the potential benefits for Apple in taking this stance.
     
    Last edited: 18 Feb 2016

Share This Page