@Spreadie - every time you use the word 'steal' you undermine everything else you're saying. The fact you use the word so much therefore makes your comments on the topic redundant. Copying and stealing are fundamentally different and to try to paint digital piracy as theft is a complete waste of time and gives an impression of lacking understanding, and trying to cover it up by repeatedly splashing emotive language about.
The music industry was heavily based on radio play to get its products out there, the consumer to be able to fully consider whether they like a single enough to buy it. Albums weren't sold on the same basis and hence a large proportion of the customer base could quite regularly experience the disappointment of an album with two or three decent tracks on and the rest of it complete pap. Enter ITunes etc. allowing people to buy only the tracks they want. Exploiting the theory that customers don't want to pay for things they don't like, or don't know what they're getting. Conversely, the games industry repeatedly tries to increase sales by producing cinematic trailers with little to no actual gameplay footage, let alone allowing potential buyers to sample the full product before committing, and then, increasingly, putting out products of unacceptable quality. This is behaviour that doesn't deserve consumer faith and loyalty. If the games industry let gamers try before buying, it would force developers to finish their games properly, and give customers the opportunity to buy only what they were satisfied with. What kind of industry relies on consumers buying with no provision for ensuring customer satisfaction?
Yes Dad. All you've been is rude and condescending. And preacher like. So you can call me a thief and tell me I am stealing again? no thanks. You've already made your mind up and got out your little soap box so why should I even bother to try and reason with a stranger on the internet? I think you mistake me for some one far younger and less wise. Either way I think you are extremely rude, and I don't make a habit of trying to have a reasoned discussion with people that are rude. No I didn't because as I said you strike me as extremely rude and condescending. And I don't normally engage with people like that but I figured sod it, I wasn't going to take your preaching lying down. Call it what you like I couldn't care less. Oh I see, now we are moving on to disguised swear words. Next thing you will be insulting me properly eh? Maybe if you took a look at yourself you would understand why I ignore half of what you say. You rudely judge me and tell me I'm a thief and expect what exactly? Swearing is so cool. It's even cooler when the forum has a swear word block so you make it look as close to the real thing as you can. Oh the irony. Of course you did. You're actually really good at arguing on the internet. Yes I'm stealing and I absolutely love it. Especially when it gets people like you to get their knickers in such a twist. LOL, you're hilarious No thanks. What I will do is continue to steal the games, try them out and if I don't like them delete them and not pay for them. The same way I would if I went out for dinner and it was terrible I wouldn't pay for that either. You don't have an argument you just come on the internet like some pompous old fool telling people they are thieves. It's laughable. Of course it will. Yup that's exactly right. Half way through the film I was so bored I walked out, went to the kiosk and got a refund. Same way as I would with anything else that I wasn't happy with really. I'm not a charity and I don't go around making people rich at my expense. I didn't really do much of anything. I offered my opinion, it seemed to get up your nose so you felt that you were entitled to come onto an internet forum and start brandishing people thieves. Do you like being a bully then? Good. Well you keep campaigning then and I will keep stealing. Quite. But hey, let him carry on going around the internet putting people to rights.
I think it all comes down to whether people own a license to the products they are pirating. I'll give an example. I bought the Age of Empires Collection for a few Euros a few years ago. I couldn't use it on Linux due to DRM. Therefore I downloaded a pirated ISO and compared it against my DVD, keeping only the different files. Therefore to install the game I simply copy the files to my PC, make the necessary substitutions and run the unlocked installer on wine.
His wording (see his first post) - I just chose to continue it. I understand the literal difference between copying and stealing. Calling it something else, doesn't make the act any less dishonest. I'm not sitting here weeping for the software houses - the well documented zero recourse for consumers is something I hate just as much as anyone else, but **ahem** "obtaining a copy of a £40 game without it being paid for" is far from an acceptable practice, and bullsh!t arguments do nothing to justify it.
Thats not necessarily true you could probably choose a demo selectively such as a low requirements level, reduce the number of NPCs to remove overheads or some other dirty tricks. Even with a demo you still have to rely on 3rd party reviews and info. But it would definitely reduce the risk for the consumer and any developer would probably get bad PR over deliberately masking problems in a demo. But when a party has millions invested in the success of a game, any dirty trick to sell more units is always on the cards.
Well, I'm violating the EULA, but in this case it's completely irrelevant what I do to the media, even more so since it's a second hand DVD (I don't buy anything with DRM first hand, except Steam licenses, since they are a part of the purchase in the Humble Store together with the DRM-free version). However, the value of the media I have has already been paid upstream, which is very different from downloading the ISO without obtaining a license first.
Where's the dishonesty? I'm downloading a game to try it. If I like it I'll buy it. If I don't like it I'll delete it. The only thing the developer has lost is a sale to an unhappy customer. No dishonesty there in my book. Conscience is clear.
This is slightly off topic but If the problem with piracy is denying content creators funds for the products they have created, how do people feel about adblockers?
That's a bit of a slippery slope. How much gameplay is considered a try, and how much of a licence is that worth? Since you can't pay to play a percentage of the license, nor the authors offer that for free (in a form of a demo), that's something difficult to assess. I make an effort to curate my adblock list (unless the ads are from tracking providers) and in some cases donate.
You failed to answer the question. Your choice of language - re-read your first post. Age has nothing to do with it, nor is it an accurate measure of wisdom. Your replies suggest otherwise. Why? Is that what you're waiting for, a tirade of profanity so you can take umbrage and make your exit? Sorry to disappoint. Oh, it was righteous indignation and not a failure to produce a valid argument? I might have to check, but I'm pretty sure I didn't use the word "thief" at all. I did that on purpose - I only said steal and stealing because you stated as much in your first post. Really? A mild swear word is what upsets your moral compass? Hilarious! and then some! How very kind of you to say. I think that's about as far as I can be bothered to go.
Good. Honestly stop wasting your breath. Once you'd insulted me there really wasn't any going back I'm afraid. Any reasoned discussion we could have had was ruined. That's pretty much how I feel. It's not right, nor fair, but then life generally tends not to be. Had I not been screwed over so many times I would probably think differently.
I think it's another slippery slope, because it depends on how it's being used. It's like trying to fool a software license to install in multiple machines at the same time.
I'll pirate something if I can't legitimately buy something. IMO if you want people to pay for your goods, you should make it so that they can. A good example for me is a show like Game of Thrones. I bought into the whole NowTV thing thinking I could then watch the show as it came out completely legitimately. Instead all I found was that the service was crap and wouldn't let me watch the show thanks to too many people trying to do it at once. When it did finally work, the picture quality was terrible, so eff that. Another example is ludicrously expensive software. Thankfully this area is fast changing as more companies are either adopting the modest subscription model like Adobe or Autodesk's method of putting their software out for free unless you're earning a certain amount from it. Like hell I'm dropping 5 grand on a piece of software I've not learned yet. If I'm making a decent living from it, I'm happy to pay up as it's clearly worth it. It sort of falls back to how if I couldn't afford it to begin with, then I'm not exactly a lost sale. Music I tend to buy in CD form still. I find that having a physical copy has a number of advantages, namely choice. I can decide what format to rip into, where it goes, what software I use etc. If I were to change from an iOS based phone to something else, I can easily take my music with me without any fuss. It also means I'm not dependent on others choosing decent settings. I don't mind 320kbps/FLAC/ALAC, they all sound good, but some people upload with stupidly low bitrates.
Don't the points you raised equally apply to Music, Films and Books? I could buy a DVD only to find out the film sucks and i wasted my money, as i don't buy DVD's I'm not sure what the returns policy is on them but I'm guessing it the same as games, that if you buy it you keep it.
I was reading through Spreadie's comments, ready to pounce right onto this one. You hit the nail on the head. Once a game has had it's key input, no company on earth will accept a physical copy refund. So there's the first failing. Going on to the chair 'argument', Vault-Tec could go to a showroom, try any chair in there, and spend his/her money on the one that suits them best. The one that they like. Can you do that with games nowadays? Can you just go to your local GAME, ask the guy at the counter, 'alright mate, mind installing this game and letting me have a play with it?', can you balls. It's a case of like it or lump it, unless you want to 'try before you buy'. Nowadays, I am very selective of the games I do and don't buy. It has to be on sale, and it has to have favourable reviews. Sure, I might not like it in the end, but if I'm dropping significantly less money on it than I would do should I have bought it at release day, then I'm not overly losing out.
How many of the people who pirate Photoshop actually need the extra features it has over Gimp? How many of the people who pirate Windows could get their tasks done with "insert free linux distro of choice"? How many of the people who pirate music could simply find a free radio station they like? How many of the people who pirate some new game could simply re play an old one they own instead? In other words, how much of the piracy that happens is even out of "necessity" or due to some "principle" instead of "just cause"?
