E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

"By hook or by crook I will impose my will on the people I'm supposed to act in the best interest of regardless of the damage it does to them because as great leaders like Pol Pot and Pinochet have proven, keeping people in line is best achieved with the iron fist of fear only a heartless robot like me could achieve and the real threat is Labour any way so pay no attention to the empty table and be ready to lay down your life to stop Labour because they are seditious 5th columnists who don't even believe everyone should get to reap the benefits of the hostile environment our dear Robot Leader has granted us."

 

I may be a full-bore remainer, but.. Was Jo Cox's murder really ever linked to Brexit? I feel like if there was any concrete evidence of that it'd have been in the news just a smidge more than I remember.

I know the guy who did it was a headcase, and into far-right stuff, but without explicit proof he did it because of the referendum, I'm not entirely sure it can be casually thrown into the list of **** that went wrong with the referendum..

 

Prosecutors didn't need to refer to the referendum to show him guilty of the crime, only so far as saying the atmosphere contributed to it.

The thing is he isn't, no evidence to suggest he had any mental health issues at the time of the murder and yet it seems to get washed over as crazy guy does crazy.

So yeah, was it explicitly linked in court? No. Was it linked? Yes, but to what degree beyond the 'atmosphere' the prosecutors mentioned I can't say.

 

I'm not convinced someone with a history of mental illness and still being active within far-right groups can ever be considered 100% there (I'm not convinced racism isn't a mental illness, to be frank).. Still. Unless the guy said in his confession "I did it because she was pro remain" I'm sceptical of its inclusion in a list of things wrong with the referendum. There was enough wrong with that shitshow that will never get addressed as it is. Jo Cox's murder should stand on its own without being bunged into a referendum issue list to be remembered.

IMO.

 

I can't disagree TBH, fair points.

Can I say it was explicitly linked? No, but i'd have to side with the prosecutors that the whole atmosphere did contribute.

When I think of Brexit I think about it more than just the vote to leave. But, yes, I concede that does open me up to perhaps including things that may or may not have happened irrespective of Brexit.

I guess that's one of the problems, it's such a shltfest it's hard to know anything for certain.

Edit: Whether it was the catalyst or not I do find it a bit disturbing that the daylight murder of a sitting MP seems to have faded so much in the general public consciousness.

 

The judge apparently said it was to advance a political, racial, and ideological cause—that of violent white supremacism and exclusive nationalism most associated with Nazism. Make of that what you will but to me personally it screams Brexit.

Don't get me wrong i totally respect that others, like liratheal, haven't jumped to the same conclusion as, what I'll admit, is my rather radical one but i do tend to think in rather black & white terms at times.

 

Yeah, it does seem to have slipped the publics mind rather well..

I dunno, I'd like to think that although Leave was fraught with xenophobia and thinly veiled racism it wasn't quite on par with Nazism. Just lots of lies to the ill-informed. Although it'd be hard to deny that people of that leaning are probably Leave voters.

I'm either still drunk or paraphrasing, but, "Shouldn't attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity" comes to mind with regards to the Brexit referendum.

 

Yea i totally get that, it's why i understand not everyone shares my opinion on the matter.

I guess it comes down to what parts of the judges statement stand out to each person, for me I'd say Brexit was definitely political, tinged with racism, definitely an ideological cause, and had overtones of exclusive nationalism.

I definitely don't think it was about violent white supremacism or Nazism.

 

Ah, cool, thanks for that, don't you just hate Mondays.

 

Definitely applies to my mum although she puts it down to her own ignorance more than anything else.

 

Well, a Remain campaigning politician was killed by a far right nut job on her way to campaign for remain. The nut job specifically singled her out as a 'passionate defender' of the EU, declared her a traitor to the country and an enemy of freedom, the exact words he used in court were eerily reminiscent of the language used by Farage, Daily Fail and numerous Brexiteer Facebook feeds, who were all far too happy to label and print the names and faces of anyone who didn't support Brexit.

The court never pushed the 'he did it over Brexit' angle because they only needed to prove he was guilty of murder, the motivation being irrelevant to the prosecution when they had so much other evidence (CCTV, weapons, blood, witnesses etc).

The Mail, Mirror and people like Mogg wasted no time declaring it a random tragedy and nothing to do with Brexit, with more or less the same tone as climate change deniers (he never said it was about our Brexit campaigning, so we can't possibly have contributed). I know it's my opinion but I can't see how anyone could not link the two without being extremely naive or willfully ignorant. The Right spent years dehumanising and painting a target on the backs of anyone who disagreed with them, I never got death threats handing out leaflets for Labour, I got them for handing out Remain leaflets (sorry, Government Propaganda). **** like this doesn't happen in a vacuum, Leave gave idiots direction and gleefully singled out people to target, then acted surprised when one of the nutters they pandered to actually followed through on the rhetoric.

 

Looks like Corbyn is going to back an amendment for a second referendum, not got a clue what that means in terms of being useful, knowing that damp rag it's an amendment that has no meaning or implication.

 

Dunno, a glimmer of hope is like gold dust to me at the moment.

Edit: although i do worry if it comes to pass we'll have no 'stay' option, instead just be given the options of creating a Democratic Republic of Corbynistan with a lifetime leader vs May's leaving on the back of a unicorn powered by a right-wing engine fueled by the burning of the poor.

 

So Labour's leadership finally confirms it'll try and do the thing it agreed it would try and do way back at the Party Conference... although it's left itself precisely no time with which to achieve their aim.

*golf clap*

...and it probably won't back the Cooper/Boles amendment because.... who the **** knows any more.

 

Although today also highlights issues with the EU, how countries the EU are paying to 'stem' the flow of migrants is not very 'EU' at all.

Many fingers in ears, look the other way.

 

So just as a thought exercise...

What would Corbyn campaign for in that hypothetical 2nd referendum?
He is a long term EU sceptic
He and his party campaigned for remain last time
He demanded article 50 to be triggered immediately after the referendum
He and his party ran the last GE on a leave manifesto
...

 

'doing the right thing, having exhausted all other alternatives' comes to mind...

 

Yeah so long as leaving meant on equal or better terms than we have being in.

His unicorns eat in the opposite field to the ERG's.

 

Aye, just waiting for the "national interest" "right thing to do" "x and y caused this not me" "frustrating the will of the people" nonsense.