But what makes you decide against sheep slaughtering and for bacon sarnies but not against the anti-gay stance in the bible?
i think that people have the right to choose what to do in their lives however when a group of people seek to justify their decisions and make them just as good as what im doing especially when i feel it is wrong, i will take a stance. now im not against gay people. i think that they are quite enjoyable and fun to be around. its just the fact that marrigae will not mean the same thing anymore. i see it as being one of the most holy ordinances in every church and even civally. it is a sacred thing and i do not think that we should toy with it. maybe we should set up something different? i just don't think that we should call it a marriage.
What difference does the actions of another couple have on YOUR marriage? Your marriage is between you and your partner. What you make of it is entirely up to yourselves- it doesn't matter what Mr and Mr (or Mrs and Mrs) Bloggs next door are doing. If YOUR marriage is a marriage "before God" then God will look at your marriage for what it is and judge you accordingly. What someone else does is their own business, and has no effect on you unless you let it. If we're going to start making a stance on people making a "mockery" of marriage, then perhaps some of the flag waving homophobes can redirect some of their angst towards all the lovely marriage hotels in Vegas? Sam
yes i realize this and i think that this is true. however i will not stand idly by and let my voice go unheard. sure people can do what they want. it is a free gountry as people call it. yet it is my country too and i want it to refoect my values and beliefs in some way or another. also you would have to think of what i think of homosexuals and how they got that way which is another debate entirely which i will leave alone entirely because we are already tettering on going off topic. i am not liberal and i think that you all have realized this by now. i am also blunt and hate trying to avoid stepping on everyones toes. i dislike the ACLU and many other orgonizations like them. this is why i think that we will never agree on certain things and this is one of them. you do your thing and i will do mine as long as it doesn't effect my life directly i really won't do much more than sound off everyonece and a while. 1st im not a homophobe and 2nd fine with me where do i sign
My point exactly. It shouldn't make a difference to you what two loving people do in their own homes, and it should matter even less what name they call their union... I never said you were- sorry if that was a bit ambiguous. However, it seems to me that there are a lot of people out there (not necesarilly you) who raise all hell about Marriage being "defiled" as soon as homosexual marriage is mentioned, but the same people are strangely quiet when it comes to other things that "threaten" marriage. People can make of that what they will- I know what I think! Sam
First off let me say that debates like these are great for understanding each others stance and maybe even learning something. It is a freedom, I am sure we can all agree, that only the lucky percentage of the population can afford. Living in Canada, I will be greatly affected by the results of the upcoming election (as will the world I guess). I try to stay informed when it comes to world events, and scrutinize the news as best I can. I believe the greatest threat to "freedom" is American foreign policy. As a non-American I have a different perspective on the way the war in Iraq was handled. Here in Canada the large MAJORITY of people were against it. The war, and American foreign policy in general, made many Canadians rally against the US in protest. And this is America's closest neighbor and ally! Imagine what the people are thinking in countries being devastated by "US: go it alone" mantra. Despite what many people in the US think, sitting in their lay-z-boys, a large percentage of the world considers YOU the enemy. And the argument that the US cares for the worlds people with foreign aid does not hold water at all. "Your bombs killed my father, sister, and my best friend, but you shipped us a sack of rice and drilled a well for us!" yippeee! You couldn't walk up to me on the street, punch me in the face, then slip me a $20 bill and call it even. The only way to fight terrorism is to prevent people from wanting to kill you. Of course the world will never be perfect, but treat others equally and troubles, for the most part, fall aside. I can assure you that if American WMDs killed anyone I love, I would pick up arms against you in a second. Rome was one of the largest empires earth ever knew, and even it fell. The way America thinks about the world has to change. My second beef is the entire gay marriage "fiascco". I laugh at this only because American soldiers are dying in Iraq to protect your freedom to live your life as you choose, yet the same people who are for the war are mostly against gay marriage. Isn't that the most extreme contradiction possible? They say it is a war for freedom, that freedom is the right of every man, woman, and child... that if they lose their freedom, then the terrorists have won. But I guess that freedom is only allowed to those who live their lives exactly as you want it. I also hate it how people use the bible (as many of you have commented on) as a means to discriminate against anyone for any means. First off, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of religions and beliefs across the globe. You are telling me that Christianity, or catholicism, is right and the rest are all sadly mistaken? I have strong oppinons but I have never been so arrogant as to dismiss someone else's beliefs as foolish, or insane. Let me remind you that there were times and places where christians were a small minority and they were looked at as being a lower form of life. No one can say they have all the answers... if they do, they are seling something. The bible is also a book of METAPHORS, translated and re-translated, for thousands of years. Have you ever played the game telephone before? I surprised purple-monkey-dishwasher didn't come up in there somewhere. Things change. If God exists, and I can't honestly say if he does or doesn't, don't you think the greatest gift he gave you is the ability to think and reason for yourself, to look at the world around you and ascertain for yourself the way things are, and not to blindly follow the teachings of a book whose themes are quite often outdated? The bible has some excellent teachings, but if we took everything it says literally we would be living in an afghanistan like regime of oppression. You can't point out the "God hates fags" parts and then forget about the "your wife is a second class citizen" part. Either follow every part of it, or admit that it's not the absolutely perfect book some people believe it is. Keep an open mind
Indeed. This point seems to have been lost on too many people. If people in Canada, the UK, and Western Europe can be so horrified at US foreign policy, how do you think people on the receiving end of it will feel? Bush's foreign policies create more "terrorists" every day- and until he realises that you defeat terrorism by removing its causes instead of with violence then things will only get worse. Sam
The arrogance here is astonishing. "You can do what you want, as long as we're all clear on the fact that my way is better than your way". I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it sounded. But I guess it's like any minority throughout history: they stop being "quaint" and "interesting" and become a threat when they start demanding equal rights... Christians were in the same boat, once. Don't forget that. As UnclePsychosis said: you give your own meaning to your marriage; what other people do should not affect that. But you are implying that a gay marriage is "toying around", less important, less sincere, less true... well, less, than a heterosexual bond of affection between two human beings, and I take exception to that (just as much as you take exception to the idea of gay marriage). I think it is rather sad that your concept of "marriage" feels so fragile that it is threatened by the bond of love between other people. Scientifically speaking, they're neurologically wired that way, the same way you are (I assume) wired to be heterosexual. Sexual orientation is not a choice. It's who people are. Learn to deal. Well said. Again, well said.
I wasn't dissing the bible by any means , it has some good teachings and moral standpoints, it also has some very bad moral standpoints, homosexuality, women being second class citizens etc; all i was trying to point out is the fact that it was written approx 2000 yrs ago and that soicety has changed as have most other things in the world since then , even tho some civilisations still run around kicking the crap outta people that they don't agree with, thebible also suggests tolerance for other people and their beliefs, that includes tolerance for gay folk as well as someone else has pointed out hetrosexuality and homosexuality is down to neurological wiring, its not a choice for many people its just the way things are, I'm actually shocked at the homophobic reactions re: gay marriage but maybe the fact that my brother is gay colours my opinion, it doesn't make him any less of a person that you or I its just that he conducts his life in a different fashion as is his right in the so called free soicety of the western world I agree with the comments made on US foreign policy , unfortunatley I live in a country whose Govt seems to be determined to hang onto dubya's coattails when it comes to kicking other peoples arses wether it be on a false pretext such as "the iraqi govt has wmd's available in 45 minutes" or otherwise, but believe me when I say a large percentage of teh Uk population are very disillusioned with teh situation in Iraq and the way that the affair has been conducted, yes the world probably is a better place with Saddam Hussain out of the way but his regime has been replaced with a far worse situation which is basically a lawless state in one of teh most volatile regions on teh planet, at least Bush apologised for it which is more than can be said about Tony Blair, who by the way is facing serious protests on bothe foreign and domestic matters @ the moment
hmm.. I won't be voting for bush because of the war in Iraq. We didn't find any wmd's. We found proof that in 10-15 years they might start to research them. We Illegally Invaded another country and took it over. Bush "flip-flopped" By saying to us "we believe they have wmd's, then switching to, sadam is an evil man who must be stopped." That was not cool. The fact that we had people die in a the region of the world where in all honesty, we aren't that loved. Patriot Act Fedral Police The fact the Sadam was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He pushed the buttons for too long and got hit hard. The fact that terrorist are the bane of most dictators, as Sadam was. The whole trial without jury thing if your a terrorist, or the government thinks you are. This new system of "alerts" that is totally ridiculous. Kerry is the lesser of two evils here. I don't like my choices. I'd rather make good with other countries. I personally think for as much flak as we get sometimes we should just leave all other foreign affairs alone bar trading and such. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And for the marriage thing. Who cares? It's their lives. I don't like the idea of it, but oh well doesn't mean that gays shouldn't get married. This is america, land of the freedoms after 30 years of protest. The abortion thing, I believe that if either the guy or girl wants it, It should be made to be given to one of them. Abortion should be for rape cases only. Adoption for mooks who can't spare the 75cents for a jimmy hat. If you don't want the kid, use a day after pill if your not even smart enough to do that, then live with it.
I'm not voting for Bush or Kerry; Nader has my vote. I know he's still not great but better him than the other two. If either Bush or Kerry is elected, someone overseas will suffer along with us, whether economically or otherwise.
I've never understood the two party system in the US. I know more people can run than that (Green party) but they get zero coverage. In Canada we have a much broader choice. Right now we have the Conservative (almost like republican), Liberals (almost like democrats), NDP, Green, Bloc Quebecois (basically only in Quebec), and many more. Admittedly, Conservatives and Liberals make up the majority, but even if a handful of others, such as green party members, NDP, and independant, get into parliament, it makes a big difference. There is a greater diversity in Canadian politics. At the very least we have more than a 50/50 choice. I found an interesting site HERE about how much the war is costing US citizens, and what that money could have been used for.
Our countries moral standard more closely resembles Satanism than it does Christianity. Regardless of who you vote for, you are not voting for 'turn the other cheek' - you are voting for vengance.
Satan was a dark jedi!!!! (too much KoTOR....) I'm am one who is not fond of the whole 2 party system. Infact I think any party system isn't that good. Id like to vote for someone on their views and not their affiliations.
Swings and roundabouts... In Holland for instance we have a multi-party system. Thing is, when one particular party gets the majority vote, two smaller ones can make a "coalition" and still attain majority rule. So often the country votes for one thing and still ends up with something completely different. Moreover as the coalition parties did not see eye to eye to begin with but just made an alliance out of mutual convenience, the country ends up being governed by a coalition which spends most of the time bickering with and contradicting itself. It's a disaster.
